Yes & so have others who are more talented than I. You & a few others used R1’s as examples that the class is fine - do you see them running DW?
Are you trying to say DW does more up front burst? Or what position are you trying to take, here?
Out of curiosity, if I were to have said no, what would have been your next comment? Tread carefully there & don’t make yourself look like a hypocrite.
My 2 cents:
2% is a joke, and a hope they bump it up. For reference in 208 ilvl with Koltira’s Favor, that’s about 36 more damage on Obliterate (non-Killing Machine Proced) 30 more on Remorseless Winter, 29 more on Frost Strike, 3 on Howling Blast (non-Rime Proced), and 160 on Frostwyrm’s Fury. 60-80 DPS gain on raid bosses. Safe to say, far from enough.
We’ll still be doing paper cut damage outside of Pillar (though all Frost specs has that issue), our AoE will still be very lacking, and Unholy will still out DPS the ST Frost specs.
As for Biceps’s comments on WoWhead, I found them very lacking in content. Was he referring to BoS? Did he mean all the specs can clear Heroic CN with S-tier DPSers in the group? There is a lack of context given in his comments, and I’m surprised about it given his videos are full of context. Almost as if it was a phone-it-in response…
Glad they confirmed they are doing something for 2Hers, so we’ll see what the final numbers are. They HAVE to know 2% isn’t enough and wouldn’t be received well.
I really don’t get why the defense over how bad frost is. Do you think DKs are scared they are going to nerf UH and make it not an S tier dps to fix frost? So rather than talk about how poor frost is preforming they try to push the narrative "frost is fine’. Fine is the most backhanded complement you can give.
Im saying you are just complaining to complain and that your statements dont actually coincide with each other.
And you answered yes to the quote of “How do you know its better than DW” thats not a yes or no question, thats a how do you know that it is better that requires an explanation.
You have turned this into a pvp moaning thread yet again.
If rank 1’s can make frost good against other top tier players, then yes its fine. Its other peoples performance that is the issue and they want the class to make up for their poor performance. Arena is a team area, not a free for all, these other people are able to climb while you sit here and complain about it.
This 2% is not a pvp targeted buff, its a pve targeted buff and in case you havent noticed its a 2% overall damage increase, not targeted buffs per ability, basically an aura which supports the idea that Blizzard actually has their hands tied in how they can actually buff the spec.
2% will be nothing for the vast majority of people and lets look at what this really is, yet another band aid to 2h because the spec is a DW spec. It doesnt matter how much people want to say its not a DW spec, it is. Thats why might exists, thats why they had to buff the KM proc chance for 2h, and its why this 2% aura is being applied to only 2h.
Don’t listen to him. Dude literally doesn’t actually play the game and just trolls on the forums.
Do you only show up to talk trash whenever I post anything at all?
I love it when these threads go off the rails.
2% is nothing though, hope we see more.
would have liked to have seen 8% or 10%
There’s actually an EU player who is ranked 2891 (4th Highest DK in the world) who dual-wields and is Night Fae (Crazy!)
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/eu/archimonde/volkovitch
I have heard various players ask Mes, including myself, why 2h is better than DW and he did say what you mentioned about it being more up-front damage, BUT he also said that he has not really tested DW out and is not 100% sure if 2H is the go to. He simply said he always focuses on 2Hs first because its easier to get than 2, one handeds a tmax I level. But he mentioned that down the road he will be trying DW. It’s definitely up in the air though, I feel like with covenants, soulbinds, and conduits, what we “think” is meta can severely change within weeks or upgrades.
Also Mes has stated that DK is not fine at its current state and hopes that with the increase in Health it averages and makes us tankier.
Okay. You obviously have never touched pvp ever in this game.
It has been this way for YEARS! This is nothing new with 2h being preferred for pvp over dw. The upfront big spike damage with 2h (specifically with obliterate) has always been preferred. Obviously Legion and Bfa are outliers, but before that this is what it was.
You constantly trying to make it seem like you know absolutely everything, but at the same time showing that you know nothing…
Stop making a fool of yourself, please.
I have pvped in this game actually, and 2h couldnt be used for years so all it was was DW in terms of Frost.
The thing is you are saying it has big spike damage, others are saying it doesnt and its garbage, so which is it? Both cannot be true, either the burst is fine, or its not and thats what im pointing out.
The only reason why 2h was ever even considered was because of Might providing an 85% damage increase on a singular ability along with 35% on other melee. It wasnt because of the weapon, it was because of the band-aid providing too much damage on a singular ability. Its the same right now with 2h putting all its eggs in one basket. But looking at people actually pvping its chill streak that is doing the damage which DW would increase by 15%. So take your pick, complain about the 5k Obliterates, or have 15% more damage on Chill Streak.
2% ulitmately is nothing.
Lets say your OB was hitting for 5k-- now it will hit for 5100…
so for every 100 pts of damage you do, you do 2 extra points, as its not going to work like compound interest, its a linear and not exponential buff.
the overall amount of extra damage is going to be very small-- and as a pvper, it will make no difference in this meta.
Some folks are die hard to their favorite spec and get defensive because they don’t want to be viewed negatively for playing a poorly performing spec.
What always has amused me is when people defend it by saying “I’m always top dps in my groups!”. So you play with trash or undergeared groups, got it.
I raid with a bunch of people who just came back from Classic and are having some difficulty adjusting to how much more complicated retail is. I can molly w—p (seriously??? Thats not allowed???) most of them on the dps meter as 2H Frost, but I know its still an underperforming spec when I can switch to Unholy and see my damage go way up.
I know you’re just pretending to play it stupid, but I’ll bite anyways.
When looking at DW vs 2H, 2H has higher burst than DW.
This doesn’t, by any means, imply that it is in-line with the meta or other classes as a whole. An underwhelming 2h being above an underwhelming DW in burst doesn’t all of a sudden make that 2h godly…or “fine”.
Come on, now.
People like Kelliste are a little more specific. “Die hard BoS” or “Die hard DW” as they’ve stated many times that they’d rather not have 2h even be a thing.
For someone who is so adamant on the forums about a class, I’m sure they like to some degree, you’d think they’d actually play it.
Mind blown brotha!
You didnt care to read the next paragraph in that post you quoted did you, or even the fact that 2 different people are telling me 2 different things, you say it doesnt have big spike damage, and the other person says it does big spike damage. Im going off the context of other classes not 2h vs DW in this case, you are assuming I am talking about it because thats all you can focus on, 2h vs DW.
Since you missed the rest of the post where I explained why people went for 2h in the past, it wasnt because of the weapon just like its not because of the weapon now, its because that weapon is bad in the context of the overall spec that it needs band aids and those band aids is what makes it have this type of damage. Its not because the weapon is good, its because Might makes the weapon do this big spike damage as others have said.
Does 2h hit harder with one ability than DW? Yes, and thats the problem. 2h is trying to not be a part of a spec that it wasnt to be a part of and that is what causes the issues, thats what causes the balance nightmare that is Frost, thats what is causing the 2% buff.
If people werent so bigoted towards DW then they could have actually fixed the issues instead of bringing back the problem band aid that is Might of the Frozen Wastes. But you are too busy complaining about pvp. Seen a frost affliction lock tearing it up in 2’s and do you know what the affliction lock said “oh yeah! theres the chill streak” not “oh yeah look at those obliterates that the 2h provides!”.
You are looking to grip chill streak while peeling for your team mate if they are ranged and trying to shut down other classes burst and these 2 were actually working together really well. Thats what arena is about, not trying to carry everyone because you were able to in WoD with “lawl 1 button spam and mages die”
No, you just have a reading comprehension problem.
The person telling you that 2h does big “spike” damage was saying that in comparison to DW, which is factual. - The exact same thing I was telling you.
The current debate here is 2h vs dual wield as Xinove responded to your comment which was a response to me.
Isssss context hard or somethin’?
Half the stuff you blabber about isn’t worth my time to read through.
If you arent going to read it then dont respond to it like you know what I am talking about with 1/32 if the post quoted.
lol imma just leave this here
Do you not understand what “at this point” means? It means at this point no I dont care about 2h, but its its just band aided on and not actually implemented properly, and for someone trying to be snarky and talk about someone elses reading comprehension, you totally missed the entire thing.
So no, at this point I dont care about 2h, let it die. But im not going around 2h bastards like people were saying “dw bastards” not calling the weapons something like pro 2h people were calling DW weapons “toothpicks” and so on and so on.
If anything, i was trying to get it implemented so that either could be used without complaints. But you dont understand that because you are just so hateful because the name says Kelliste next to it. You are the problem here, not me. Look at this crusade you have against me and for what?