Talk to Blizzard about their lore. It was mentioned that Theramore was the strongest powerhouse of the Alliance in Kalimdor as per Tides of war.
Now, the refugee camp boasted a thousand exiles, and the draenei found that the need had outgrown their will and capacity to provide.
A Thousand humans Refugees in Kalimdor(and the only human in Kalimdor were mostly from Lordearon). And this was during Catacylsm. Imagine how many people actually lived in Theramore then and didn’t go to the Exodar during Cata?
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Yet. I have hope they will find a way. Time to follow up with Gunther Arcanus methinks.
OR
The way Calia was raised finds itself repeatable.
I guess time will tell
Gonna need a citation on this that isn’t “Zerde says so.”
You lie non stop on this topic.
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Where else would they come from? Most of the humans in Stormwind were safely(more or less) in Stormwind at the time. Those that became refugees due to the burning of the park, went to Westfall, not half way across the world.
But then the outcasts had begun sending out word to find their friends and families, and the call echoed throughout Kalimdor:
So again, the call echoed throughout Kalimdor. We know the survivors of LORDEARON went to Kalimdor. Not the people of Stormwind.
Dalaran
Hillsbrad
Alterac
Except as mentioned the call was only thoughout Kalimdor. It didnt mention anything about the Eastern Kingdoms hearing about it, and even if they did. Why go to Kalimdor to the draenei when you could flee to Ironforge/Stormwind/Theramore?
If your talking about the initial refugees that left, many of Dalaran’s citizens stayed in Dalaran. Hillbrad is the same(not to mention Lordearon citizens!) and Alterac was all but abandoned already/Annexed by Lordearon proper by Warcraft 3.
Man population discussions suck. It really is exhausting when we get into theoretical population semantics. It’s useless to speculate until blizzard gives us actual figures, which they may never do as they tend to omit a lot of the finer details from their world building. I personally suspect Calia wouldn’t see the Forsaken as the legitimate heirs of Lordaeron if they weren’t the majority. But the reason we can even have this dumb argument twice daily is because blizzard never gave us any statistics on the matter, and so we’re all arguing with fragmented or non-existent evidence and bashing our heads against our personal faction biases. It’s so exhausting.
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Man, I didn’t even realize that WC3 had a Forsaken description. I pretty much started with the RPGs way back in the day.
Why?
You don’t think cdev have painted them as an extremely small number compared to their undead counterparts? The only time they pop up is when 1. they are being killed 2. they are being killed and 3. they are being killed
ummmm, I’m definitely missing something. Are you talking about Theramore? Like the obliterated Theramore?
Edit:
I’m not trying to change your mind or anything, I’m just curious as to why you would think that. You’re literally the only person I’ve ever seen assume that the living Lordaeronians outnumber their Forsaken counterparts; and I’ve been around for a long time.
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Yes I am talking about it. And before you say anything. We know the civilian population then escaped to Alliance lands.
- we dont have population numbers. 2) Cdevs hasnt actually made much of a comparison as far as I am aware. Especially considering every major world event that keeps happening(like the afformentioned losses to both sides and now the loss of the val’kyr to the Forsaken). In fact, I recall one BfA interview talking about how the Forsaken are probably in bad a shape as the night elves.(playing up the whole they also got hit badly angle). We also have a ton of neutral Lordearon citizens that joined say the Argents/under their protection.
Are you suggesting that one ship of civilians equals their Forsaken counterpart in terms of population?
Why do you keep saying this? I thought we were past that point; we all have been making this point for almost 2 decades. What I’m talking about is why you believe that the living former citizens of Lordaeron outnumber their counterparts. I think what you mean is “because numbers don’t exist its possible” which again, we all have been preaching that.
I could believe that the RAS is bigger than entirety of the human population based on a variety of things. I’m asking about your variety of things.
You have already agreed that the majority are Lordearanian, so at this point I’ll share my reason and hope you do the same:
- The living refugees started off as a very small group especially compared to the Scourge.
Enter the slaughter:
- The Refugees were specifically hunted and killed during a WC3 campaign by Arthas, Kel’thuzad, and Sylvanas; they were slaughtered
- The Refugees decided to team up with the Forsaken, unfortunately they were demeaned as racists’ and no one cares that the Forsaken ate them; they were slaughtered
- The Refugees decided to join light worshipping zealots and dreadlords; they were slaughtered
- The Refugees ran into the Gilnean wall; they were slaughtered
- The Refugees ran to Theramoore and got mana bombed; they were slaughtered
- The Refugees decided to hang around in Southshore and got blighted; they were slaughtered
- The Refugees decided to hang out in Hillsbrad and got turned into abominations and planted; they were slaughtered
I’m sure I’m leaving out more but to be honest the few refugees that managed to survive has had one specialty; getting slaughtered.
Meanwhile the Forsaken were viewed as the Eastern Kingdom Horde powerhouse, only a few quest in and we learn that the Val’kyr are raising hundreds of corpses a day and they were getting shipped from all over Lordaeron. It wasn’t until this current expansion that they lost the Val’kyr. I say give it a few expansion of not solving the plight of the Forsaken and I would agree with you. I am not opposed to the idea/storyline.
That could mean anything.
Knowing that you’re one of the biggest Alliance fans I know, I think you are being a little disingenuous here.
I’m sure you know Argents history better than I do. I think you’re thinking of the Knights of the Silverhand. The Argents were created because of the KotSH bigotry dare I say racism. The Argents begin their organization as an open door for all.
I am suggesting Blizzard has always been horrible with scale/population. Again, Theramore was described as being more powerful then Darnassus and yet all their civilians escaped in one boat? And that we had a thousand human refugees in Exodar and yet the Night Elves were just several thousands living in Darnassus. Scale and number are just plain awful in this setting
We know a good chunk of survivors still manages to escape to either Theramore(and as I recall old lore had it that several boat of new survivors was still arriving all the time) or Stormwind to the point even one of the cries during Wrath was “For Lordearon” and we even one of the flavor text of a guard from the fourth war hoping they might retake it back(although after what happen he lost hope in seeing it).
And that is where we are at. A lost as to what the actual lore with all we can do is bring up fact that do not actually answer how many humans from Lordearon are alive and how many Forsaken are left. So at best this is a moot debate.
This entire debate was sparked by Dreadmoore’s implication that because the Forsaken are more numerous they should get Lordearon which really come to think about is absurd. Ultimately, Lordearon will probably be contested by whoever remains of their people and they will probably end up dragging both Alliance and Horde to whatever future conflict will come up.
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Theramore had nothing to do with Lordaeron - that’s why there was a Lordaeron symbol on their flag.
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They are literally the survivors of people from Lordearon, Quelthalas and even some dwarves(I dont know why they tagged along but I guess they wanted to help?)
Lordaeron was genocided, but donn’t worry guys: Zerde said the living survivors outnumber the dead ones!
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Twisting my words again?
The living ones outnumber the Forsaken/probably the same number at this point.
Forsaken=/=all undead in Lordearon.
I do like the ring of “King Turalyon.”
I do wonder how that scenario would play out if he were still the Steward to Stormwind’s throne & the new heir to the Throne of a retaken Lordaeron at the same time if the Alliance managed to secure/cleanse capitol city.
I’ve always thought a good secondary scenario they could do in the event Capitol City isnt under Alliance Control/Abandoned by All is fortify Southshore into a larger city/town to serve as the acting capitol of Alliance Lordaeron.
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Nah.
You keep lying and implying that because Sylvanas can’t make more forsaken, that the forsaken of Lordaeron have all been genocided to death. That hasn’t happened. The only assaults the forsaken personally suffered were Varian’s short 15 minute raid in WotLK, and BFA’s where Sylvanas got everyone out of Lordaeron before blowing it up.
Being unable to reliably reproduce =/= “the entire Lordaeronian forsaken have been killed.”
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Oh sure the player scenario where you portal all the civilians out is totally canon 
. Player scenarios are of dubious lore quality(using another BfA example, we players save worgens in the Burning of Teldrassil even though the novel specifically states all the worgens got out long before the city was torched)
We know canon wise that portaling people takes alot of time(as shown by What happened to the night elves). Even if we assume the civilians got away, Sylvanas ended up having tons of Forsaken killed in her war. Like her failed attempt at keeping Darkshore.
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Are you saying it isn’t?
Based on what, liar?
Translated:
“I’m going to disprove this thing happened by ignoring all of the evidence that it happened.”
A miscommunication over a minor detail between quest devs and the short-story writers re the Burning of Teldrassil does not mean that all in-game scenarios are invalid with lore that doesn’t count, wtf.
If that were the case, Lordaeron is still fine there’s no blight at all, and Varian Wrynn never died. LMAO
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