Part of the reason faction war stories tend to suck is that blizzard isn’t prepared to give a meaningful victory to either side.
For instance, a total defeat could be fascinating storytelling. Hell, we saw it in Warcraft 3. The basic narrative was that in the devastation of both the Alliance and the Horde, the two rise up from the ashes of their past glory and unite to save the world.
In the wake of those factions, a great many fascinating doors were opened up story wise. A new continent with new peoples. Old lands in ruin with various movements in place to reclaim them. Internal division and conflict. War3 had it all.
This story has that same potential. In the wake of Lordaeron City’s desolation, the Forsaken have been laid low. I could whine about how, after controlling Western Lordaeron in its entirely for nearly a decade,
Blizzard has oofed my favourite race and we canonically only control deathknell and the sepulchre. Or I could embrace the potential for new and exciting development. There’s a lot of questions facing the Forsaken now. How do we unlive alongside the living without being Scourge 2? How do we reconcile the betrayal of a leader practically worshipped by her people? What is the future role of sentient Undead in Azeroth? What will our new government look like? Do we fight the Alliance over Lordaeron again as they begin to encroach once more upon those lands, or do we try for a peaceful and fair diplomatic solution? Will Calia reform the more evil parts of the Forsaken?
I dunno man. Those questions sound a lot more interesting to me than " me powerful big armies never lose ever"
My point was never “Me powerful big armies never lose ever”
Losing isn´t the point, the point is to be stucked in a situation without an real plan on the devs behalf. I mean, they did bfa…but forget to plan ahead in a “What will come next” situation.
Its tiresome…and the com run out of patient…because blizz didn´t get it.
In Legion, 7.0, everyone wondered why the hell the Tidestone was being sought by the Naga? Whose side were the Naga on? It was a big question. Afrasiabi said it’d be revealed in time.
It took them until 8.2, but the answer was given to us in the end.
Just because the resolution hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it hasn’t been planned.
I don’t know how you can take away from all of this “the Alliance never wants to ever lose ever” when the object of what Alliance players in this thread desire is the recognition of their right to identify with Lordaeron, which was catastrophically defeated in the Third War.
The fall of Lordaeron was the catalyst that unified human fans post-WC3. Shared experiences go a long way towards forming identities, including shared tragedies, but we aren’t even really allowed to even acknowledge that anymore, since it’s the Forsaken who have taken over the “tragic victims” schtick even though they spent the entirety of WoW pre-BfA winning.
So since Vanilla (and especially since Cata) we’ve been subjected to the double wammy of both being victimized by the Forsaken while the narrative treats the abusers as the real victims.
The only thing worse than suffering is suffering that nobody acknowledges.
People talk about how much the forsaken stole from humies, but always forget the Forsaken are dropped from all stories wherein they are not villains for the heroic alliance to defeat.
Humans beat Arthas.
Forsaken are no where in the Shadowlands expansion, but Night Elves are.
Forsaken won’t be in the Light or Life expansions.
Should the Forsaken really care about Shadowlands? Two of the three Forsaken taunt the mushroom gardener. Why should they be interested in the place that is the reason for their existence? The mushroom gardener was saddened only by the loss of the garden, right?
Forsaken players cared, and it felt extremely insulting that their in-game race (read: the writers and developers) were insulting their loss, while giving enormous story attention to their counterparts who had experienced loss on the Alliance side.
Horde players fight things like this Lordaeron argument tooth and nail because it feels like an attempt to take even more from a faction that is already reeling in the story relevance department. I’m willing to say that’s not even necessarily what Alliance players are claiming, but the scorekeeping is so ferocious because people are already angry and upset, and want to see some gains and development after the loss. Trying to introduce claims like that the Forsaken have no right to where they’ve lived in-game for X number of years feels like just more taking.
Notice how few Horde players seem to post here anymore? A lot of thoughtful, lore-conscious players (on both sides) have drifted away because of how poorly the narrative has treated them, and how disinterested Blizzard has signaled they are in building back up any of what’s been torn down.
He does say he hopes to one day see Tirisfal with green grass and trees, but in the very first paragraph, he says “And now it belongs to the Forsaken” Let me put extra weight on the Now in that sentence as the report is done after the end of the war and the treaty is in place. Not to mention that Lilian met Calia in Tirisfal as well with the dark rangers.
I suppose we can only assume that the return of Tirisfal was one of the points of the treaty.
I dunno, I don’t think it sucks. I play Alliance plenty and I like SW. That said: Alliance story for the Human kingdom is pretty meh. There is no real reason to love, or attach to, the political leadership if you actually pay attention to more than the showy cinematics.
I don’t like Anduin the brat claiming a kingdom he has no right over, especially when he himself was involved in raising Calia from the dead. All he did was make himself an oath-breaker like Genn is.
You’ll split the player pool and make Alliance feel less populated, especially on things like RP realms.
The best answer right now is for Blizzard to actually invent some backstory for the six kingdoms that don’t have them and then put in a quest line with heritage armors for them. Kul’tiran people have a real advantage there.
Humanity isn’t just Lordaeron.
The game story asserts seven kingdoms. The story already asserts Forsaken as the heirs according to the last Royal blood.
You’re making an argument that’s like saying real world global humanity is New York because the UN is there.
If you want it to be where your character is from, great, do it. You can do that. There are some survivors.
So, have you done the Kyrian story? That why you mention this?
They would.
And they take too long getting them out. Waiting a TV season for a show is different than 2+ years.
They are just continuation of an unenjoyable narrative at best made more tolerable with some investment in the answers.
And no, the Forsaken should not need someone they have nothing in common with just for the sake of introspection.
You don’t need a nuke to create intrigue. It’s why most BE story suggestions from certain kinds of VE/HE fans are so awful as the “interesting questions” translate to “wreck/take their stuff and tell them they are wrong”.
The faction conflict being based around total war just leaves people miserable. Not everyone wants near worse-case scenarios for their character’s culture, nor incredibly rug-pulled from under them culture critiques.
me powerful big armies never lose ever"