I don’t have the time to sift through 15 years of in game, book and short story dialogue to prove an opinion that is true for the sake of some forum troll.
from Aethas to Renthar to Sylvanas and Nathanos have all noted that Lorthemar is backstabbing and lacking a spine (but I do take into consideration all of these opinions are 1) character’s personal opinions and 2) are heavily biases against Lorthemar simply based on Lorthemar’s lack of personal support for this individual’s cause and therefore isn’t substantial. On the flip side there is Liadrin, Halduron and Rommath who support him, Although Rommath is sometimes a ‘tough love’ kind of friend. So really you don’t need to argue this with me I’m just stating facts.
I mean I’ve already covered that I don’t believe for one single moment that anyone was looking down on Lor’themar in the story. You made the claim. The burden of proof is on you.
Oh yea don’t get me wrong. I also have very fond memories of Classic Stormwind too. Especially entering the gates of Stormwind for the very first time. The Defias/Onyxia stuff was good and i still love Duskwood till this day. A very fun place to level especially as a Paladin. But with that said i think we still could have had the best of both worlds with that in classic with representation of the human refugees. Especially if you could have had them playing a part in the story. I’ve always been a fan of the idea of having the Night Watch in Duskwood largely made up of Lordaeron refugees that wanted to help fight back the undead and the darkness there. Or to even have just a token Lordaeron Paladin there in some form. Then over in Redridge have some Stromgarde Warriors & Knights helping fight back the Blackrock Orcs.
You’re right about the Argents though. They in the long run massively damaged the Alliance/Human identity. Especially after the WOTLK Era when they just sort of sat back doing nothing as more undead were being raised as Forsaken and the very land they cleansed was being replagued.
Is not as If Varian was nothing but Diet Thrall with half of the nuance (no, getting magically cured of your defects thanks to Blanduinism isn´t compelling) and double of the Gary Stu characteristics.
Yes, I laughed like a hyena when good ´ol Gul´Dan disenchanted him back in Broken Shore.
You´re too good for us, Baal.
Also still waiting on feedback on my suggestions in your Forsaken customization thread (rude!! so much time waiting for that!!).
Would have loved both of these ideas. Honestly, as unprobable as it is I just hope they do a 2nd world revamp somewhere in the future and remove the Kosak blight from Redridge and especially Westfall. Those zones are a total disgrace. At least Duskwood is not that bad post-Cata. Well at least until Legion made almost every npc in Darkshire lolevil for no reason.
Yeah, Argents are pathetic and it always ruins my day when they appear anywhere. Really can’t think of a worse WoW group.
Your big evidence is something from The Burning Crusade?
Do you completely erroneously think characters do not change or grow?
Well unfortunately for you, I have firm evidence of you being completely, wholly, and irrevocably wrong in regards to Lor’themar and his leadership in the Horde:
Well, after the disastrous events that led to Vol´jin´s death, I´m happy he didn´t got the Watchief job back then.
Wrong, he was angry over Dalaran´s hypocritical ways that ended up hurting his people. He literally complains over Jaina allowing the Alliance free use of the city while she scapegoated the Sunreavers for no good reason (remember, the only one who knows some Sunreavers were implicated in the theft of the bell is Aethas).
The only reason he was “seduced” to go back to the Alliance was Garrosh´s arbitrary use and discard of the Belves and their lives. He would had ignored Varian´s phonecall had Cairne or Thrall or Vol´jin stayed in power instead of “Orc Hitler”. Heck, he would had rejected it too had Orc Hitler kept his Cata M.O. regarding the Belves.
Excuse me, but the only ones that have called him “coward” were:
Veeresa, who was SO brave she never returned to Quel´thalas to help recover the kingdom and who stayed nice and happy hinding under her Husbando´s petticoats.
Sylvanas, who was more worried over throwing bodies to Arthas so she could reach him and exact revenge than to analyze how was the military status of Quel´thalas post Sunwell Plateau.
Also, this “coward” literally and vocally baited Jaina “Mary Sue” Tragicmoar without batting an eyelash, something even Thalyssra (another mage with more fighting chances) was too cowardly to attempt.
He´s nuanced, but I suspect he only managed to be so thanks to not classifying as either a pet or a potential plot device for a writer pet in this game.
Excuse me, he´s a by-the-book Tsundere as far as Lor´themar is concerned.
Yeah no, you are someone I probably avoid on other platforms. And i’m not in the mood to fight those fights today.
Just the mere suggestion that the character I think you are refering to is a dev self insert. Gtfo with that. The Reddit lore forum bans people who say that for a good reason. There’s no proof. I wish moderators here cracked down on it too.
It would be nice and i hope we do too. Maybe someday, who knows? It might seem unlikely but i like to be somewhat optimistic about it. Westfall and Redridge are awful though. Such goofy zones full of lame childish jokes especially when you compare them to the Silverpine Forest storyline. Aside from just being goofy Westfall’s a total eyesore with that giant crater as well.
The Redridge one could have been corrected pretty easily imo though. Keeshan himself should have been a human Knight you help reform the Brotherhood of the Horse with to fight back the Blackrock Orcs. Or as i said prior, him and his buddies could have been a Band of Stromgarde soldiers you help fight back the Orcs & retake Stonewatch as their base of operations. Instead of the ending quest where you drive that tank it could have been a Cavalry charge where you fight mounted alongside them. Those mechanics for such a quest were already ingame anyway since we had the Argent Tournament stuff in WOTLK.
Well, we will disagree indeed as long as you put your Sylvanas surrealistic hype over actual cold lore analysis indeed. /shrugs
The Windrunners are ALL nutjobs btw. Terrible character development on ALL of them (and I admit, Sylvanas is almost the one with the WORST arc if not for “Trophy wife” Veeresa pulling ahead thanks to the humiliating connotations of her mysoginistic trope).
Which character, Jaina? She´s a pet character. Calia IS a borderline self insert, not funny at all either btw.
Sylvanas is a plot device for Blanduin´s “development” (and mind you, I don´t see him advancing an inch and staying static as far as actual narrative growth is concerned).
I think it would just cost too much time and resources and I’m not really sure if ActiBlizz is willing to put that in current day WoW. I’m staying pessimistic but hope to be pleasantly surprised one day I guess.
Post-Cata Westfall has to be the worst zone in the game. Half of it is basically unused, it has useless movie memes absolutely everywhere and that crater makes it ugly too. I just don’t know what the hell were they thinking.
Redridge would work with current story if they just dropped Rambo lines appearing every 5 minutes. Also I hope someone at Blizzard remembers Brotherhood of the Horse is a thing, what was the last time they got mentioned, TBC Karazhan? That’s just sad.
I must admit though, running the orcs over with that tank is my guilty pleasure.
What do you mean by that? Lor´themar certainly IS nuanced thanks to NOT being a self insert, a writer´s pet or a combination of the above.
I´m not saying he´s perfect, -heck, the character is even self aware enough to aknowledge he´s NOT perfect; I mean hello let me show you people Exhibit A on a leader literally trying to make amends to people he hurt in the past?-, I´m saying the only reason his development has been coherent and decent is precisely because he´s NOT relevant in the agenda of the writers of this game (who, every time they take a character and put him/her on the spot, manage to ruin him/her somehow by proxy of villain batting, Sueism or a combination of the above).
Nah, human identity wasn’t thoroughly butchered for the sake of the Forsaken until Cataclysm when Blizzard hired a sex pervert to ruin low level questing in the Eastern Kingdoms
Humanity’s, and the Alliances, Lordaeron heritage was actually very well presented in WotLK.
