Forsaken population

[Izhkarl-khazgoroth (Izhkarl)]

@Ainhin-thorium-brotherhood

So stop telling lies.

A lie is something that is completely made up. Which is 99% of your posts.

My statement on the other hand is a very reasonable one within the constraints of Azeroths history, not bound by an irrational sense of zealotry. Lordaeron the Empire was wiped out. Its inhabitants consumed by the scourge.
The forsaken on the other hand have been steadily growing in number throughout its history and by cataclysm had attained the ability to mass produce.

[Ainhin-thorium-brotherhood (Ainhin)]

@Izhkarl-khazgoroth

A lie is something that is completely made up

A lie is false information that is presented as fact despite the presenter knowing that it’s false.

Statements like this:

@Izhkarl-khazgoroth

The living of Lordaeron would be pushing %$#@^ up hill to account for even 10% of the current forsaken population.

are lies. Simply restating your lie but louder and with more confidence doesn’t make it any less a lie.

So stop lying. You aren’t fooling anyone who isn’t already in on it.

[Izhkarl-khazgoroth (Izhkarl)]

Again this is not a lie. Its a very reasonable assumption.

It doesn’t conform to your own zealous head cannons. Thats all.

[Ainhin-thorium-brotherhood (Ainhin)]

Presenting assumptions as facts is lying, especially when you’ve been repeatedly given information that sheds doubt on it.

[Renautus-arathor]

@Sarestha-wyrmrest-accord

@Ainhin-thorium-brotherhood

Erevien.

What’s Erevien?

don’t say his name again, you’ll summon him.

[Ainhin-thorium-brotherhood (Ainhin)]

Only if someone says it a third time while looking in a bathroom mirror

[Izhkarl-khazgoroth (Izhkarl)]

@Ainhin-thorium-brotherhood

Presenting assumptions as facts is lying, especially when you’ve been repeatedly given information that sheds doubt on it.

@Izhkarl-khazgoroth

My statement on the other hand is a very reasonable one within the constraints of Azeroths history, not bound by an irrational sense of zealotry. Lordaeron the Empire was wiped out. Its inhabitants consumed by the scourge.
The forsaken on the other hand have been steadily growing in number throughout its history and by cataclysm had attained the ability to mass produce.

10- char

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

“Lordaeron’s forsaken aren’t of Lordaeron. They’re just being pulled out of graves in Tirisfal.”

[Tymberlea-moon-guard (Tymberlea)]

One would think, after the glaring dissonance between the story beat of “as one of the few surviving blood elves” versus their predictable ubiquity in the Horde, Blizzard would wish to avoid plot elements of “it is only we few left”.

Then again, I know better than to expect sensible story, so who knows?

The Forsaken, their undead state, the fate of their population, the populist schemer they made their queen and abandonment by same. They can’t catch a break.

Fatalism and gallows humor would be a sensible way to handle it. And drinking, if they can get drunk.

Lordaeon? Yeah - it got given to the Scourge by it’s last king. Then there was a rebellion among the undead. The Forsaken are Lordaeron now.

[Thormus-hakkar]

@Sarestha-wyrmrest-accord

To bring this back around to Lordaeron/The Forsaken do you think living Lordaeronians would back Jaina as a potential candidate for Lordaeron’s Throne? As the at one point fiancee of Arthas she could ALMOST have a claim… a claim that’d be strengthened by her former rule of the predominantly Lordaeronian City State of Theramore. I wonder what a personal union of Kul Tiras and Lordaeron would look like? There’d be potential for some internal religious division there - Light vs Tidesages!!

In the event we ever see a restored Alliance Lordaeron, i don’t think Jaina would be the Queen/Leader. If this was prior to BFA potentially since she did lead the survivors who went west. But as of now? Assuming there was no other Menethil to step forward i think the Alliance would back Turalyon as the new King of Lordaeron. He’s a big name in general but also the only named Lordaeron noble we have Alliance side.

@Ainhin-thorium-brotherhood

Eastern Kingdoms, where everyone seems to consider Lordaeron’s, Stromgarde’s, and Stormwind’s lands to be the collective lands of all of humanity.

Given the history of those three kingdoms in particular from the First War through to the Third that isn’t a surprise. In fact something interesting could be done if humanity began to toy with the idea of a unified Neo-Arathorian Empire based on the political union of Lordaeron, Stromgarde, and Stormwind since the populations of those three kingdoms have essentially already been unified.

In fact we could already see things like this as early as the Warcraft 3, where the Alliance had already taken to using the heraldry of both Stormwind and Lordaeron interchangeably.

I’ve thought this for some time as well. The surviving humans of Stormwind, Lordaeron & Stromgarde seem to be slowly melding together in a new/united identity.

1.) Most of Stormwind’s population was culled in the First War. Even more Stormwind humans were slain during the Second War as well. From what i remember Chronicle even stated many of those survivors never even returned home when Stormwind was rebuilding. So most of the settlers had to come from Lordaeron. Probably some from Stromgarde & Dalaran as well. Heck probably even Alterac.

2.) Lordaeron & Stromgarde both fall during the Third War. Many of the Survivors go South to Stormwind.

3.) The survivors of Theramore (Largely Lordaeronians) with a smaller mix of the other kingdoms most likely went to Stormwind after Theramore’s destruction.

4.) Stromgarde is reclaimed in BFA, not only do we see the standard Stromgarde military/Militia there but now we also see what looks like Stormwind Settlers (who are likely themselves to be of Lordaeron ancestry) moving into the new farmsteads setting up across Arathi.

It definitely seems like the mainland EK humans are forging a shared identity. At the very least between Stormwind/Lordaeron/Stromgarde.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

Just because you’re a noble doesn’t give you the right to be royal. Elevating a random family to the status of King is ridiculous, who do you think we are, Medieval Frenchmen?

I’d rather:

• it be revealed that Tiffin Ellerian is of Menethil blood because the House of Ellerian is a Cadet Branch of the House of Menethil, ergo why Anduin looks like Arthas
• it be revealed Katherine is of some Noble House that is a long distant branch of the House of Menethil (beyond cosanguinity), so Jaina could claim it
• Turalyon having the weakest claim by being a Cadet Branch of the House of Menethil even beyond that of Jaina

Alliance Civil War Time.

Like the War of Roses.

[Thormus-hakkar]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

Just because you’re a noble doesn’t give you the right to be royal. Elevating a random family to the status of King is ridiculous, who do you think we are, Medieval Frenchmen?

Who else would they elevate? And im talking about the way blizzard writes things here. Turalyon is the most prominent Lordaeron human in the Alliance and is already the current human leader as the Steward / Regent Lord of Stormwind’s throne. If they were to make anyone the new King of Lordaeron i’m pretty sure they would go with him.

I’m not even against your idea though necessarily. Having the other human lines all linked together/linked to the Menethils. I actually think that could be interesting to get into. But if it ever came down to it i think they would just go with Turalyon.

[Sarestha-wyrmrest-accord (Sarestha)]

@Thormus-hakkar

It definitely seems like the mainland EK humans are forging a shared identity. At the very least between Stormwind/Lordaeron/Stromgarde.

Do you think in the case of Stromgarde this could be in part due to a lack of fleshing out? We had no idea how culturally distinct Kul Tiras was until BFA, for instance. Could there be more cultural diversity within humanity as they currently stand?

I agree re Stormwind and Lordaeron. That makes 100% sense. I just wonder if the same is true of Stromgarde.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

I’M GLAD YOU ASKED, RANDOM DWARF

BEHOLD I PRESENT a possible hypothetical genealogy of the various humans, living and undead, that allows for infinite expansions backwards

[Thormus-hakkar]

Yes i think that could be a big part of it. I think there’s potential for there to be some differences still. Like maybe Stromgarde could still be more of a heavy martial warrior culture and more battle hardened to an extent. This is just my personal view of Stromgarde but i could also see their warriors using a Braveheart style warpaint.

But overall i still see Stromgarde being very similar to Stormwind & Lordaeron. Especially in the current era.

[Sarestha-wyrmrest-accord (Sarestha)]

@Thormus-hakkar

Stromgarde could still be more of a heavy martial warrior culture and more battle hardened to an extent.

I would actually be totally down with Stromgarde being 1700s Prussia. Just very warlike with the Army basically ruling the state. It’d make sense given how there was so much disorder recently. Time to bring back some order, BY FORCE! haha

[Chaeor-azjolnerub]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

Alliance Civil War Time.

Like the War of Roses.

They did have a foreshadowing window in Before the Storm (Anduin feeling like Calia was a big sister). Doubt it was intended that way with context, but it’s there all the same.

That said, I doubt any of us want to see this writing team try War of Roses.

@Sarestha-wyrmrest-accord

Do you think in the case of Stromgarde this could be in part due to a lack of fleshing out?

TBH, shouldn’t Stromgarde be the more foundational Human culture?
Lordaeron and the others broke away from Strom. So I’d expect it to be more prominent.
The game can definitely use some depth, very little of the living world detail gets worked in.

[Aurirel-wyrmrest-accord]

I think with Humans, it gets especially bad when a culture gets basically left at “here is some generic high fantasy Europeans”.

[Chaeor-azjolnerub]

Yeah.

And then has a new thing stapled on when it looks cool.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

@Aurirel-wyrmrest-accord

“here is some generic high fantasy Europeans”.

not even generic, cuz where is my Basic 101 Arthurian Magic Quests?!?!