The whole looking like monsters sadly does play a role in why many in the Alliance hate/fear them.
But being monsters personality/morality wise is a very good reason to despise the forsaken.
It doesn’t help their image when they commit terrible acts towards innocents, doing things in the Axis playbook.
If the majority of the forsaken weren’t so evil, it would improve their relationships with fellow horde members and even humans, etc.
So mostly the Forsaken have themselves to blame for the reason they are so…Forsaken.
Well, lucky for us it seems the more vile of their ranks just skittered off with their Queen; leaving the rest sort of just sort of floating aimlessly. Hell, even Velanora implies that the majority of the Dark Rangers stayed with her, the Forsaken people, and the Horde; and only those most cult coolaid drinking ones went off with Nate and the Banshee.
The Forsaken have been broken down to their Foundation here. What becomes of them is really dependent on what is built upon that Foundation from now on. Voss, as forced into the position as she is, would conceptually make for a phenomenal rep for them if given the right TLC. No one represents Forsaken Free Will better than her, and the responsibility and care she takes over those she feels forced to take responsibility for is quite impressive. Stone and Zelling really were being groomed to be loyal to her, not Sylvanas or Nate. Should she do that, even accidentally with the rest of the Forsaken … she’ll build up allies faster than she can blink. Velanora and Tattersail also have some pretty good potential; despite how minor of characters they truly are now.
The line between the Scarlet Crusade and the Alliance was not always so clear. In Vanilla there was a Scarlet Crusade Emissary in the Stormwind Cathedral named Brother Crowley (he’s still there now) that was actively recruiting Alliance into aiding/joining the Scarlet Crusade. Brother Crowley sends the Alliance PC to a second Scarlet Crusade Emissary in Nijel’s point (the Alliance base in Desolace) named Brother Anton. He tasks the PC with killing some skeletons to determine if they have the resolve to join the Scarlet Crusade.
Quent: Brother Anton
Summary
Brother Crowley: My brother in arms, Brother Anton, heard rumors of an undead infestation in distant Kalimdor, in a land known as Desolace. Anton immediately booked passage to that place, to seek and destroy the undead menace! He is looking for those with the bravery and resolve to aid him. If your heart is true, then speak with Anton. He is in Desolace, in the Alliance town of Nijel’s Point.
Brother Anton: I received word of aid arriving from the east. Are you the source of these rumors? Have you come here to help the Scarlet Brother in its crusade? If so, then listen close…
Quest: Down the Scarlet Path
Summary
Brother Anton: I will be frank. We are at war with the Scourge. It is an evil that corrupts our people and infects our land. It must be stopped before it overwhelms us and drags our world into shadow. We of the Scarlet Crusade have sworn to fight the Scourge with body and soul. If you are with us, then gather your courage and prove your allegiance—destroy the undead ravagers of Desolace, in the Valley of Bones to the south. Do this, and the Crusade will embrace you.
Brother Anton: You have proven your resolve, and the Scarlet Crusade commends you. If you do not shy from righteous slaughter, then perhaps your path lies with us…
Brother Anton then sends the PC to meet a Scarlet Crusader in Southshore named Raleigh the Devout so he can take the PC to Scarlet Monastery to join the Scarlet Crusade. The only thing that prevents this from happening is that Raleigh the Devout had left the Scarlet Crusade because they started killing living humans. It wasn’t because they didn’t distinguish between Scourge and Forsaken.
Quest: Down the Scarlet Path (2)
Summary
Brother Anton: We of the Scarlet Crusade lay claim to strongholds from Hearthglen to Tirisfal Glades. We are quite proud of our bastions of cleansing throughout Lordaeron. You have proven yourself against the undead in Desolace. But the true threat of the plague lies in Lordaeron. Travel to the town of Southshore, in the Eastern Kingdoms. Seek out a crusader named Raleigh the Devout. Give him this letter of commendation bearing my seal and he will escort you to a place of honor in our Scarlet Monastery.
Raleigh the Devout: Who goes there? What do you want from me?
Raleigh the Devout: Brother Anton still spreads the word of the Scarlet Crusade? Oh my… Raleigh the Devout breaks the seal on Anton’s letter and begins to read it. By the Light! This is not good. There’s something you don’t understand, [name]. Raleigh the Devout throws Anton’s letter down on the table.
Quest: In the Name of the Light
Summary
Raleigh the Devout: I once served the Scarlet Crusade with honor, loyalty and pride. I believed their cause to be a noble one: to rid Azeroth of the undead. But as I spent time at the Monastery in Tirisfal Glades I realized that their grasp on reality was slipping. They now think everyone is plagued who doesn’t wear the tabard of the Crusade. Innocent men and women were tortured because they were supposedly plagued. The Scarlet Crusade must be crushed in the name of the Light. You, [name], must destroy the deranged regime.
Raleigh the Devout: While disciples of the Light never revel in the loss of life, we must accept that on occasion, such sacrifices must happen for the greater good of the Kingdom and the planet. Through your deeds in the Monastery you have spared many innocent lives, [name]. I salute your tenacity.
Until this point, the Alliance as a whole was not aware that the Scarlet Crusade had become so extreme. Scarlet Crusaders were welcomed into Alliance settlements and allowed to openly recruit for their cause. Brother Crowley’s presence in the Stormwind Cathedral fits. Archbishop Benedictus is suggested to hold similar views of undead, as shown by Commander Karl Philips who is serving him in Alterac Valley. He tasks the PC with killing Forsaken, including his own brother (Brotherly Love quest) because he and Benedictus believe it is doing them a kindness.
Quest: The Archbishop’s Mercy
Summary
Commander Karl Philips: The Archbishop is as kind as he is wise. For a man to look mercifully on such a wretched lot…Commander Philips shakes his head in disbelief. Too kind… Just too kind. The Archbishop asks that we take pity on the undead and grant them swift and permanent deaths. For this grand display of mercy, we merely require their black, disease ridden hearts. Bring me the hearts of the Forsaken so that they may be ceremoniously incinerated at the Cathedral of Light. Make haste, [name]!
Commander Karl Philips: Benedictus! I am but a speck in the shadow of his grandeur. Praise him!
Commander Karl Philips: Praise be to Benedictus! Another lost soul, soon to be saved by the white hot flames of the Light! Go ye, oh soldier of Light! More must be saved!
Quest: Brotherly Love (Alterac Valley) (Alliance)
Summary
Commander Louis Philips: He must be put out of his misery, soldier! He knows not what he does. He has become a mindless servant of the dreaded Banshee Queen. Venture forth, across the Field of Strife, to the depths of Frostwolf territory. Find my brother and destroy him. His torment must come to an end.
Commander Louis Philips: It is with heavy heart that I give such an order, soldier.
Commander Louis Philips: You did remember to burn the corpse, didn’t you?
7 Likes
Yeah and your the one ignoring everything the forsaken did in vanilla and cata the forsaken have done nothing to be undeserving of the hate.
1 Like
Not at all. I am more than aware of what they’ve done, its part of the reason that I’ve grown increasingly sick of their nonsense “Alliance of Convenience”. However, I also don’t hate their entire racial fantasy either; nor do I think its necessary to destroy everything about it for some ulterior motives like you clearly want. The Forsaken must become convenient for you.
Its part of the reason I’m so opposed to Calia as a “Forsaken” leader in concept; rather than just some Alliance brand Undead AR leader. Mommy Calia left to go get cigarettes 15 years ago and now she’s back to be a part of their lives, expecting nothing to have changed; and is shocked when the 3 year old kid she left behind is a bitter, angry young adult with some issues.
5 Likes
You need to get over calia she isnt gonna be there leader blizzard already said so, and there racial fantasy doesnt fit with the horde You can have all the horde races be honorable and then have one race be dishonorable
And you need to stop being so hung up on concept so poorly defined by Blizz that it apparently can only be described in relation to how the Horde treats the Alliance; as sickening as that is.
The Forsaken don’t need to adopt a Troll/Orc/Tauren style honor to find their own sense of it. The BEs have their own style of “honor”, the Goblins essentially just have better business ethics for their brand. The Forsaken could find their own style of nobility, starting with them taking advantage of the destruction of the Helm of Domination and getting back to their roots. Freeing the minds of the victims of the scourge. There is a quite “honor” in that approach to continuing their race.
3 Likes
Their racial fantasy is great. Just not on the Horde, who were supposed to not be your stereotypical fantasy monsters.
#DissolveTheFactions
You really dont understand honor at all honor isnt about being a selfish pfs its about how you conduct yourself the forsaken being nice and freeing undead for there own selfish reasons DOES NOT do anything to fix the gulf between them and the rest of the horde and alliance.
Their racial fantasy is great. Just not on the Horde, who were supposed to not be your stereotypical fantasy monsters.
#DissolveTheFactions
this is honestly the only way for forsaken to keep there current fantasy without it making everyone else look like a bunch of stupid heads
No thanks. There would be nothing more convenient for the Alliance Faction than for the Horde to get dissolved. As it is, Blizz already seems to detest actually giving the Horde and its races actual development. We could have been written out of Legion entirely, and you have barely have had to change at thing. Our Faction and Races have repeatedly been used as exclusively as a vehicle to push whatever hairbrained story Blizz wants to tell; until their ready to let the real heroes of this setting take the lead again.
I mean hell, Shadowlands reaks of WoD2.0 … were Blizz villain bats the absolute hell of the Horde; breaks many many toys on the Red Faction; then runs off to the next shiny dimension to ensure they don’t have to care in the slightest about the absolute wreckage they’ve left in their wake. Hell, considering their is no Shamanistic cultural representation in all of Shadowlands and De Otherside is a 5 man dungeon; seems Shadowlands might also share the WoD trait of eviscerating established Horde racial lore to make them even more villainous and wrong by default.
3 Likes
Yeah cause you people want the horde to remain a faction of selfish peoples who dont change literally asking for the villian bat
Dissolve the Alliance too. I’m sick of Stormwind.
real talk tho dissolving the factions would literally murder this games story, cause blizzard can barely tell a two faction story multiplying that would be a disaster
And you want the Horde to simply become convenient for your Faction and Racial Fantasy. But, considering the Alliance has all their even slightly questionable acts completely white-washed or absolved … guess it is nice to sit up on that sort of moral absolutist power fantasy. I mean, my god, the NEs are actually guilt of a cultural genocide with the Highborne civilization. They eradicated nearly an entire culture, systematically, and deliberately … because of a religious dogma.
This factor of their existence was so prevalent that they maintained an Elf/Arcane execution order for 10k years; only allowed the Shen’dralar back into their ranks once they were “humbled enough” … or so desperate they would agree to anything; absolved completely the psychopath that tried to murder every single Shen’dralar citizen; and only spared Dath’remar’s group because Malf didn’t want to “have to” murder them … so instead the pushed them into exile into a world they knew nothing about. But … all that is justified “cuz Azshara bad!” And this was the group of people that there was so much outrage that the NBs didn’t join?!
3 Likes
No I want the horde to actually try to be good, you literally want everyone to just pretend bfa didnt happen and for them to be allowed to just go on like it didn’t happen, but it did and its gonna be a scar on the horde story for a while now, like theramore like, the genocide of the draenei and now the burning. If you want this story to make sense the horde needs to earn its hero bat, once they earn it back, then the alliance can spreg out and actually seem villianess. Till then your the faction that comitted genocide and wants it sweeped under the rug
And by that what do you mean? You keep making these super vague demands of how the Horde should change, but almost all of them is just taking things away from the Horde … and there is nothing constructive involved. Its just “destroy the Horde. Make them convenient for my story.”
Also, did you miss my little rant? The NEs are already guilty of an attempted cultural genocide; which was swept under the rug solely because the group they wiped out was linked to Azshara. Hell, there are living members of the Kaldorei people that lived during, profited from, and perhaps even participated in the eradication of the Troll empires. And the canonical reason that the trolls weren’t pushed to extinction by the Kaldorei Empire wasn’t them stopping due to morality; it was just that the Trolls had so little left to them of value by the end they weren’t worth the hassel of wiping out. I mean … wow. But, like everything Alliance … all that was whitewashed hard.
6 Likes
Cause I want the story to make sense and unless bfa gets retconed, the horde is the faction of genocide, they have alot to make up for, and saurfang rising up is a part of that, if you want to be a eye for a eye forever be my guest, but that just gonna get nowhere quick and just gonna be boring story wise. Calling back to 10000 years ago to find alliance mistakes is funny specially the trolls who by not means are saints at all trolls tried to wipe out other races all the time btw, and they didnt stop they kept trying and btw theres a reason the highborne where exiled cause because the kaldorei didnt want to kill so many people. THe problem is again you dont want the horde to change at all, so even after mop after bfa you want the horde to continue being how it was to keep pretending its the same as the alliance, there is a reason that everyone was memeing when anduin had to call back to daelin and arthas to try to say the alliance is just as bad as the horde lol
So what kind of warchief are you gonna be, or now that the horde is a council what kind of faction is the horde gonna be, is the horde gonna keep walking the path of sylvanas and blackhand, are they gonna keep pretending everything they do is honorable or are they gonna change? Personally I rather blizzard change them rather than repeat stories if they do change maybe the alliance can get villain batted and have it make sense.
I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about at this point? I do want the Horde to change. For goodness sake, I was the one adamantly pushing for the replacement of Gallywix and Sylvanas as Racial Leaders; because they were both cancerous entities within the Horde. I have been the most vocal about my support conceptually of the removal of the Warchief position and the creation of a council; on that is more inclusive to all Horde races. I want a Horde that is stable; growing; and is run by people who without question care about their people’s well being. That’s all.
Also, see what I mean about whitewashing? The Kaldorei are guilty of a deliberate attempted cultural genocide of the Highborne civilization. They essentially left the Highborne post sundering with few options beyond: Convert; Die; or risk wandering a world you know nothing about in the hopes you find someplace away from us before you die. But, you justify it away because the Kaldorei are always portrayed as the heroes … and nothing they ever do can be questionable.
3 Likes
Then why do you keep arguing for forsaken not to change? Everyone should change but the only thing forsaken should get is a basically a sylvanas who loves them? Thats not change hon.
What forsaken need is a forsaken calia type character