For those against sharding at launch

Because handling those high latency connections will, in turn, increase overhead for both the server itself, and ALL clients connected to the server as it has to broadcast “corrections” to everybody connected to the server. (When players “rubber-band” across the terrain) Which in turn increases latency on the involved client systems as they have to process those corrections, render them, and send (slightly delayed) updated information relevant to the client back to the server.

It can turn into a rather nasty feedback loop where 1 guy with a bad connection manages to drag down 2 or 3 others, who in turn drag down another 6 people, who drag down another dozen, who then pull down another 30 people, and so on. Yeah, Happy Fun Times for all.

The thing about Sharding is it allows for those “duplicated resources” to exist in a different memory space(less of an issue in the era of 64 bit), AND more importantly, it allows that duplication to potentially happen on different hardware. Because sometimes the limiting factor is the physical constraints of the hardware itself, or at least, the efficiency of the code relative to what the hardware can do.

Generally speaking for “short term problems” it’s easier to break things down into smaller chunks and throw more hardware at each chunk to solve a problem than to it is to go about optimizing things in real-time.

This is what Sharding does. It breaks a population apart from being 1 single monolothic chunk into being 2 or more “chunks” instead. Once that population has been divided into different parts, it is then possible to allocate them to different hardware. Divide and conquer, simple as that.

The problem with retail sharding is that they prefer to use the “creamy peanut butter” version of sharding so they can utilize every last nook and crany of existing hardware infrastructure before they resort to using additional hardware. Doing so minimizes their operating costs.

For Classic, there is a case to be made for “creamy peanut butter” in the starting areas. But if they ever try to apply it elsewhere in the game, and that better be exceedingly sparingly, it better be a “super chunky peanut butter” version of sharding that gets used instead.

The retail servers can do their “creamy peanut butter” thing with the idle cycles that is likely to result from this less than optimal configuration on the part of Classic. :slight_smile:

edit: fix broken quote block. Also it should be noted that sharding, by breaking the population into discrete blocks, rather than a monolith, also means any potential impact from “that one guy” who manages to create a the cartoon snowball that takes everybody down with him is also limited to only being able to knock out the one shard, rather than everybody.

In fairness, it’s replying to strawman with strawman. There is no world to lose before a toon is created. And if there is no need for sharding, there should be no sharding :upside_down_face:

Rewatching this, my entire preferred case is laid out as their current plan.

I have no need to read the other responses that occurred in the time since i went to sleep.

That is exactly what IT and Developer types would say. Muh servers!

It is one of the most memorable and iconic things to ever happen in the game. People server transferred to witness or take part in it again. That’s the real story.

But we don’t want either of those things. this is classic we want it just as it was when it came out and part of that is seeing everyone else on your server and the first few days are chaotic. I left world of Warcraft after pandaria came out and I don’t want any of the new garbage put into my game such as sharding. I want to be able to group up and see everyone that I am going to be playing the game with.

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I was on for the launch… it was damn near unplayable. Especially with dynamic re-spawns. Mobs re-spawning faster than you can loot them. If I had to choose between that and sharding, ill take sharding any day…

To properly counter a Strawman, one has to argue against the actual argument being presented - and not to the Strawman itself, built of, say, a caravan of 10,000 players or, in your case, with an equally unhelpful reply about what a Strawman argument is.

Either way, each Strawman (yours included) is distracting once more from the actual argument being made which is, again - how disappointing sharding feels to players.

If you can’t reply to that argument, i.e.

then please don’t reply at all. Or, tell us what you think about this specific point.

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Sharding or no sharding it won’t matter.

The most used argument “anti-sharding” is “I don’t like people pop in and out my shard”.

But it changes nothing:

  • If there are only few people in the zone : “No sharding”, every player is in the same shard
  • If there are a LOT of players:
    • You shard will be full, so you will be able to see other players
    • Your friends/group/guild will be in the same shard if grouped
    • Why would you care about seeing a player you are not playing with anyway ?

The 2 downsides I can see are

  • There will be over production of raw materials. Each shard has mines/herbs (And Lotus !)
  • PvP search and gank. Even if you know the zone of enemy player you want to kill, you can’t magically enter his shard

Personally, if it guaranties better stability, I’m fine with downside.

For AQ Gates : Interesting question. But in truth I don’t really care. I think at this point in time the whole server can be in one shard du to people stopping playing.

There is no connexon between sharding and community. None.

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I am totally with you on this. I don’t want sharding above L20 at all. However, I think the modern hardware is capable of running far higher player counts than Vanilla ever was, without sharding.

I just want to get past the tourist phase without having a non-Vanilla overpopulation struggle for hoofless zhevras.

Lol i know that, ive referred to it tons! Its a great documentary.

That is the whole point of the game. We are not here for the raid mechanics.

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Sharding kills community. In fact, it even kills PvP AND world community AND Guilds in one fell swoop, if you read this post:

If you read the near 1000 replies to this thread alone, you will see it stated many times (including in the very quote you are replying to) that sharding not only has detrimental effects on the economy and PvP but on immersion and social community.

The negative effect sharding has had on me and my community since 2005 (when I started playing), is no one cares about me and I don’t care about them, since they disappear/reappear in their own little “garrison-ized” world (with a small ‘w’) of Warcraft. Back in Vanilla and TBC, who you were meant everything to play the game. You had to have good social skills to have friends, to apply and get into guilds and to progress at the game at all.

When someone appears and disappears around you, what are they to you? Nothing but a ghost and a “removed obstacle” - to ensure that you are not inconvenienced by adding to your login queue or node respawn time.

People used to be people in this game - not obstacles like they’re considered today - to be sharded out of your way so you can instantly login and farm that node whenever and however often you please.

Original WoW = Community > convenience.

Blizzard has stated sharding is completely “antithetical” to Vanilla WoW as Ion himself has stated many times and J. Allen Brack, as well. They know how detrimental it is to the community that was in Vanilla WoW.

You can have sharding for the launch window and low level zones only. After that gone forever. Period. Don’t like queues? Roll a different realm

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There is no lotus in elwynn forest. No one at blizzard has even remotely suggested there will be sharding in level 60 zones.

I can see your point.
I think you didn’t understand I’m not particularly FOR sharding, but I’m not really against. Basically I’ll be OK with whatever decision Blizzard made (yes made, so close to release I think this point is already decided)
Based on your comment I’ll add this one to “against”:
• Multiple spawns of world bosses

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I was talking if sharding is added everywhere

Nice gatekeeping.

My prior point was that the entire argument is based on assumptions of how sharding will work and be experienced- which is a strawman because that is not the argument of the pro-sharding side. You have as much evidence that players will be, “appearing and disappearing,” as anyone else has evidence there will be 10000 players in northshire abbey. So let’s dispense with calling every rebuttal as strawman and actually discuss the problem…

Being unable to play the game because there are far too many players in an area than it is designed to be able to handle feels awful. Being unable to play the game at launch will have a permanent, negative effect on server populations.

The problem evaporates beyond the starting zones and sharding should NEVER be used outside of the intital launch in the initial zones. Which is how blizzard has put it forth. And I have no reason to disbelieve them at this point.

Which won’t happen

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Define “LOT”. If there’s 200 people in my zone, under current rules that would be 5-8 shards, gutting the visual world.

This shows a distinct lack of knowledge about what made Classic great. If I’m having trouble with a quest, I want someone else to rock up and say “Hey, lets team up, I can’t get him either”. And then play with them for a few hours and suddenly you’ve got a new friend. And then they ask their guild to invite you. And then you’ve got a new family. And then they say “Lets raid MC” and you’ve got a new raid group.

All because someone else could see you struggling in the Barrens, and you banded together to beat the world.

This is Classic.

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Those tourists will play the game after launch if they don’t want to sit in queues. They can also play retail if they decide to sit in a queue since subs are tied together

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