I am capable of agreeing with ideas that are completely contrary to mine. I am interested in discussion, nor interrogation. If you would like to present some opposing ideas, I would gladly discuss them. I just have no desire to let it all devolve into something else. I try to make a habit of keeping to the topic, but am only human, so it may take a moment to circle back to the conversation.
If itās not going well and times out, I get itā¦ bolt.
The problem is the ones thatāll leave you dungeon early for whatever reason, shouldnāt be allowed to just jump right into another dungeon or even group for that matter without some type of penalty, preferably one that increasing for each time this happens.
The contract hasnāt been broken until the timer runs out, leaving any time before that I believe should land you a penalty that would increase for each leave, 30-minutes, 1-hour, 2-hours, 4-hours, so on and so forth.
That it would seem key depletion is also a similar necessary evil, no?
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Oh yeah, absolutely. I never had an issue with key depletion. It sucks, but one must improve to be rewarded.
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OP, I would love to talk to your parents.
Surely there is a point at which the amount of time remaining is, relative to the current position in the dungeon, no longer enough. If weāre 20 minutes into the timer of an Ara Kara and barely downed the first boss thereās nothing to be done.
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Except it becomes obvious when a key will not be timed.
Fortunately that will never happen. It would destroy M+ pugging.
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Well, the key should not diminish, and maybe the resolve for the timer hitting zero would feel like a world boss reset where the mobs vanish, a ātime keeperā pops up and says, āIt was a valiant effortā and then takes everyone back to the entrance. IF the team selects āDo Overā vs āFinish Themā when the key is activated. Then the team has a choice. They can 0 out the timer and āfinish themā anyway, or when the timer runs out, they get their do over.
M+ is already an extremely easy way to get gear. offering ways to make it even easier, I am reluctant to support.
things need balance, and raid gear acquisition would need quite the buff before I can really get behind making m+ gear easier to get.
So at the pedestal before it starts the keyholder chooses to either risk depletion, with the option to finish for vault if itās untimed, or go for timer or nothing?
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Honestly I donāt think this makes it easier, if anything it results in less m+ looted because thereās no weekly no leaver option or the ability to get crests / rewards from untimed keys.
If there is a way to set it up where they note the time and progression of dungeon, fine. I am just so sick of peopleās bad behavior in all things and other encouraging it. I guess itās more of me being tired of human beings and how awful they can be.
Why? Because there is a reaction to their bad behavior? If itās 100% not gonna get timed like Hpellipsis pointed out, fine, whateverā¦ Iām focused more on the people who leave early for whatever reason or people who are awful to the rest of the group who ātrollā and/or āleaveā
Essentially. Then the team can choose how they want their key to work.
If the perfect system existed I would support it, and I understand your feelings towards the whole situation. Iām just not sure indiscriminate retribution, given the systemās current capabilities or lack thereof, would improve the health of the game.
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My goal is never to implement anything that feels like retribution, and truth be told, if the system were better, I might rejoin a guild that ran M+ and climb back into that arena. But with the current state of everything, I am just not confident I would enjoy it as is, and swear on my motherās grave I will never, ever, join a PUG after that last one in SL.
Pretty much it is very hard to design a system like this that would work well that it might not be worth to do.
Personally, Iāve been more on the side to add more reasons to join a guild. Either activities or rewards that would be specific to guilds. Even if it leads to cesspool guilds (which are mostly guilds made for the benefits) I think itās a better situation than not.
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I think what it comes down to is expectations, friction and dissatisfaction comes from mismatched expectations and thatās what leads to the toxicity we tend to see. Itās also why that toxicity dies down the higher you go, because despite success rates falling the player expectations are more likely to be aligned.
Guilds are a good way to hedge towards matched expectations, as are communities and playing with friends, but I donāt believe it to be integral or required.
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Yea, I know itād most definitely ruffle some feathers but I think sometimes people need to be jostled for a point to be pushed acrossā¦ but youāre right, limitations and IMO blizzardās cowardice will never allow issues like these to be changed or āfixedā
Just so I cover it all, I agree that a % of the guilds would become cesspools; however, if Guild or Bnet/RealID teams run, there could be a satchel of helpful goods to include. Nothing huge, maybe some relevant currency, or Warband gear to help an alt. But encouraging more āfriendlyā teams/guilds to run might be a great incentive. Maybe you get an extra 5 minutes on the timer when queuing as a full group.
One thing Iāve entertained is perhaps more strict punishments for leaving could be incorporated as an expansion of the group listing system. We have āCompletion, Timer, and Standardā which are different in name only. Perhaps completion runs can have deserter timers, players are aware of them going in and can opt to avoid runs listed as such. The player quality in the average completion runs would be lower but thereād be far higher odds of matching expectations.
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