Fixing One Aspect of Mythic+ : The Solution

Community General Discussion
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Update: Before you proceed to read, apparently the solution for all of you is to just bring people you can trust and do not PUG. The ideas were shredded at LIGHTNING speeds. So enjoy the read, and feel free to discuss, but this former M+ is officially over trying to help. Have an amazing weekend!

Mythic + requires a very specific type of player, with specific knowledge and skills. Since I don’t do M+ anymore, I figure I have my face just far enough away to see one of the main issues and offer a solution. Lately, there have been constant complaints on this forum about broken keys, people bailing, etc. So, to solve this issue, I have a few ideas that would uphold the “standard” that most key runners seem to share.

The Problem
Keys are being broken, people are leaving, and/or people do not understand the mechanics in the dungeon. People either do not care, are in a rush, or are simply trying to be carried.

The Fixes

Knowing the Fights - In order to ensure every M+ player is on the same page, before using a key of any level, the players must complete a Keystone Level 2 before joining any level of their choosing. At Keystone level 2, players get to see their first affix and get familiar with mechanics. Successful completion of a 2 allows a player to join a key as high as a 10 provided they meet the iLvL requirement.

Deserting the Dungeon - This option is no longer available. Individuals who sign up for a Key higher than M+2 will be required to remain in the dungeon and the exit options, including the exit gate will not be present until either:

  • A) The Party Leader initiates a “Leave Vote” where all players much vote unanimously to leave the Dungeon at which point they can queue for another, walk back into the same one, or simply disband, or
  • B) The last boss is dead and the run is complete.

This ensures players who have taken an interest in queuing stay for the duration and help their team complete the goal. If a vote passes to leave, the key is not consumed, and does not lose a level. It can be reused. Since there is no loot until the final boss, there is no need to break the key, or diminish it. A successful vote will also waive the deserter debuff and all players are instantly ready to run another Mythic Dungeon.

Refusal to Participate - If a player fails to participate and is AFK for more than 60 seconds total in the run, they are automatically removed from the dungeon, given a deserter debuff, and are replaced with an AI who controls a copy of their character class and spec. The human is removed, the bot takes over, and the 60 seconds lost because of the unwilling participant is added back onto the timer. This allows the group to remain at the proper speed with the proper time left despite the disruption.

All keys starting with M+2 will score according to the current system, and once players hit M+10. Challenger’s peril is removed, but each of the remaining affixes will get a 5% buff. Since removing the single death mechanic will sway the runs, it is only fair to put our heroes through a bit more danger.

Now, having said all of this… is it perfect? No. Will it solve all the problems? No. Is someone going to come in here, dissect the suggestion and dismiss it all? Probably. This is mostly just to illustrate there are ways to fix it, but players need to offer constructive feed back and bring solutions to Blizz, not just vague complaints.

I mean, if it were up to me, I would dump M+ as a gearing track system and endgame pillar, return it to a challenge mode how it was originally built, and return Dungeons and Raids to Normal and Heroic only with Wrath style gearing. But it is not up to me, so help Blizz find a real solution.

TL;DR - (makes a circle with his right hand and places it on his right thigh) Made you look, and you just lost the Game. So scroll back up and read it cause we should make this a serious discussion that gets someone’s attention.

3 Likes
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So is the npc never going to miss an interrupt and use it’s other utility? How much damage is it going to do? What if it’s a healer or a tank? and just generally be better than the average player?

Or is it essentially a consolation so the group can limp to the finish line? How would that work if it’s a pivotal role like a healer or tank? How much loot drops at the end now there are only 4 real people?

How do you ensure it is never correct under any circumstance to deliberately enact this measure over having a player?

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Sadly, short of being in the room with a prod of some sort, you cannot force anyone to do their rotation. That said, they could make a DPS meter scale with an absolute bare minimum based on class and spec to ensure someone’s output is more than auto-attack. But then you have an entire system being constructed and monitored just to make sure people are playing what they signed up for. No system will ever be perfect and the ONLY FIX to any of this is:

Only run M+ with a full stack of friends and guildmates in Discord and NEVER P.U.G.

As for the NPC, it will work flawlessly to help the group and receive no loot at the end. It will simply vanish in the run just like Follower Dungeons.

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Or, we could just make it so failing an M+ dungeon doesn’t break the key.

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To be clear I’m speaking about the AI replacement, not a player skirting the rules. There’s an enormous issue with having AI replace players in challenging group content, especially when the expectation even in that situation is to have the group continue to succeed.

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There still has to be some risk. Maybe we add 5 more mins to each timer instead.

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No there doesn’t. The risk is the same as all other content in WoW: You lose, you get nothing other than a repair bill.

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The whole purpose of the AI is to be successful and help the group where the human failed. It would be as advanced as the follower dungeon, but get a 10% buff to help offset any minor hiccups. Then it still has the feeling of being another human without the 100% guarantee of success.

And if you win, you get the best gear in the game. No risk, no reward.

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And if the party leader decides not to initiate a vote, or one of the other players vote “no”, they can never leave. Are you sure you’ve thought this out?

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People are tired of people leaving and “bricking” keys. No better way to prevent bouncing than to lock and remove the door.

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So if a healer left and an AI healer joined, that AI would be 100% capable of handling all healing checks and healing mechanics present in the dungeon on that difficulty?

And if that’s the case, why bring a human being to heal the key at all? You’ve just removed a point of failure completely.

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And this is why all of your suggestions are horrible.

You would stop all pugging, instantly.

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You only get the AI if the player is removed for being AFK. You do not get an AI as soon as you step in. It is a supplement under duress, not a replacement.

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So it becomes in a group’s best interests to not bring a healer? Just have someone join, afk at the start, and be replaced after a minute.

If the AI is by design capable of the content, then it’s objectively better than a human who isn’t / might not be. Why even take the risk?

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So, the risk of a player leaving is something that should be a punishment to no reward PLUS the key getting bricked? So you gotta worry about bad behavior, along with timing the dungeon. That’s bad design.

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Why someone would lock the door before removing it?

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Just because I do not do it anymore does not mean I cannot attempt to be constructive and offer solutions. Do you have any better ones that would improve over my ideas? Or are you just here to trash the topic and boost your post count? We’d love to sit an talk about it if you have something better… or something at all.

In case someone finds it obviously >.>

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What exactly does locking away all the party members forever fix?

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Not implementing them.

I do not recognize the issue as something that needs to be changed so drastically that it would destroy the entire system of pugging.

Sometimes doing nothing is better than destroying everything.

Forcing people to stay, in any capacity is a no-go. No one worthwhile would engage in pugging anymore. It would be all friends/guilds/discord groups.

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Like I said, it is not a perfect idea, and yeah, the system would have to be set to see how many times you or your group “loses” a player to confirm if it is being exploited for a perma ban. I’m just trying to offer solutions, and if someone has a better one other than not pugging (which is the best possible solution) I am all ears. If you want Blizz to change it, give them something.