"Fixing" M+

Community General Discussion
1

After countless YouTube videos and forums, I have answers.
It is clear there is no 100% correct way to go about it, players will always be divided, but here are the most popular fixes for future WoW seasons. The goal is a happy middle where both sides (elites/casuals) mostly gain. The first two here are most important to people it seems.

  • Bring back stuns/cc’s as interrupts in M+
  • M+ keys have a couple charges where failing doesn’t downgrade it. Why not just take away any deplete you ask? A bad pull or small chance of not finishing in time means people will leave without any guilt. Happy middle ground.
  • Provide a survey for the players to give their most wanted M+ rotation dungeons like they did for DF tier sets. They wouldn’t have to use them all, but they could sprinkle in the most liked ones. I feel fun dungeons are more important than themed dungeons total opinion.
  • Remove 7 and 12 affix. Replace with positive affixes. Right now it’s “Oh boy, 12’s are going to be tough and no one wants non-meta” It should instead be, “We gotta get to 12’s for the 30% perma move speed & 1500 to all secondaries (or w/e)!” This allows for more excitement getting to high keys and the elites more room to push high (which is also more exciting for viewers). I say, let the people push!

As far as delves go, it seems delve people want good gear easily, and m+ people think the gear is too good. Here are some solutions:

  • Delve gear drops at 2-3ilvls lower than it does now to help lower m+ keys become a better stepping stone, BUT your progress on the bar or level of brann scales your gear up slightly over time while in delves
  • Delve gear scales up similar to PvP gear while in delves and the scaling gets larger the higher the delve you do making 10, 12 or even higher worth doing and fun for those who love delves. With this type of system delves could go up to 20 and be very challenging but have delve specific progression past a certain base ilvl say 610 in current terms or something so it’s still useful for world content.
    Edited ilvl for delve gear for clarity.
1 Like
2

Your first point is good, that’s about it.

2 Likes
3

Can you give more detail? I am curious where these go wrong. These aren’t just my ideas they are prevalent among the community.

4

Delve solutions won’t fix M+

M+ needs fixed because M+ needs fixed.

It might sound crazy, but perhaps the fixes should focus on making people want to do M+, other than getting gear(Because better gear is already available and a feature of M+). Like…I don’t know, maybe make them fun or enjoyable for more players?

5

Offer free lobotomies to M+ players so that theyre more pleasant to be around. This should also be offered to the pvp community.

1 Like
6

I agree, hence the positive affix changes, non-depletion, and less reliance on interrupts. What else do you think would help fix them?

7

Didn’t they effectively give every group 6 free deaths with the additional timer on +7 and higher keys, a few weeks ago?

2 Likes
9

Yea they totally did and I thought that was a good change, but it’s also a “meh” affix, not really fun or meaningful, in my opinion.

10

Ehh I think getting rid of challenger’s peril is a good idea too.

1 Like
11

lol! They aren’t all bad, but I feel as though some of these changes would help that. Bringing back cc’s as interrupts means skilled players can more easily carry the new players making it less punishing to bring them along.

12

This is really off the rails to me. There shouldn’t be some big buff the higher you go. It’s supposed to be a “push” as you progress.

I think a survey for dungeons is ok for a final patch season.

If keys don’t deplete even after the first wipe people will be quicker to jump ship. Key depletion while annoying is a way to keep groups together, attempting the clear. (Caveat here is that I never use my own key and I never leave until the group breaks up so take that into consideration).

13

The community is disingenuous about their “wants” in m+.

2 Likes
14

Devs need to find a better way to bridge that jump (for the players who take it) between delves and M+ without nerfing one or the other. As far as delve gear increasing PVP-style inside delves, this hurts overworld players who gear up in delves but also do content outside of them. They’re back to the WQ item level ceiling with this change – why should they be punished because instanced-content players are having a hard time jumping from extremely easy delves to moderately difficult M+ ?

1 Like
15

I totally agree with you here about depletions. I do think it’s good how it is for that reason, and I’m also never the first to leave a key. Seems soooo many people hate the depletion system though so I hope there is a better fix than the above. As far as the “push” goes, I figure key level is the challenge, so getting your last buff at 12, and then pushing as far as you can sounded more fun. Like I said though, no right answers.

16

I would think this kind of change would kill Delves. Most player are probably like me and only run delves for gear that works outside of delves. Anything that nerfs that would nuke the % of players running them.

I wouldn’t mind because I have grown to hate delves but they feel like a necessary chore for me at this point.

1 Like
17

Personally I’d prefer to see the amount of mechanics vomit in trash reduced in the first place so there wasn’t such a need for this in the first place.

1 Like
18

Oh definitely not world content ivl lol The base ilvl would be something like it is now or maybe 610 instead of 616, but then it scales only in delves after that. Delves would feel so bad if they were like 584 scaling up lol

19

Nothing wrong per se with the first point, but it raises the skill level of group to manage the ccs and stuns, vs just blasting everything. I do not think it will substantially slow down the runs unless those CCs are lethal, and if they’re lethal, then, well, back to the first issue about player skill, class, and dungeon/fight knowledge.

The second point I can summarize: nobody cares about your key, they’re going to bail on you without regret. The possible slim benefit of a more robust key is that it might give folks a bit more incentive to create their own groups, and key death is certainly an aspect of that, but I don’t think it’s that much of an aspect (having lost 4 key levels in less than an hour one day, I got my key reset by just jumping into someone else group).

Players want the shortest dungeons, no survey necessary.

The primary issue with M+, and it is not alone in this, is that the majority of the players simply Do Not Want To Be There. Lower level dungeons are even worse. After seeing the same dungeon the first 10 times, it all gets old, and we want it done as soon as possible, or, preferably, not at all. But thats how it goes.

I can’t speak to the affixes, I have no idea what they are.

I can’t speak to Delves, Delves will always be a problem as they offer a parallel path to the same gear.

That means those on that path will either feel they “have to” run both, to gear up as fast as they can, or one will run one type exclusively, and in Delves case, feel “left out”.

The way to fix Delves is to give them some independent value on their own. It would be great to be able to get Very Good DELVE Gear (through a borrowed power system like the Torghast Box of Many things), so you as a player are not obliged to run someething like M+ to get to the highest tiers of Delve difficulty, in order to get the Delve Transmog set and Mount (or whatever). Let me get “650 level power buffs” that only works in Delves.

20

Emotional Damage! gif

I don’t have permission to do actual gifs.

1 Like
21

1 Like