Fixing Human kingdoms

Lore Story Forum
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Sure she did. She knew full well that the Menethil line was no longer a popular one due to her brother’s actions, especially among the Forsaken. The moment she approached Belmont he assumed she was there to try and do some Menethil royal claiming which he was promptly ready to shut down. It was only after she assured them she was after no such thing and that she had a potential way to help clean the blight did they even let her stick around.

Sorry to say it but she has some work to do if she wants to get things to where both the living and the undead can live close to each other without one side or the other getting outright murdered.

And as far as trying to convert the area to not-Horde? Forget about it. The Forsaken literally chose their loyalty to the Horde over their loyalties to Sylvanas. Something that surprised even me. It’s pretty cut and dry Blizzard intends to keep Lordaeron on Team Red for the foreseeable future.

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At best Capital City and Silverpine will remain Horde. But considering the Alliance got back Southshore the territory lines are roughly back to Vanilla.

That is jusf Calia not wanting the royal line/title. Again she said as much to Anduin. However, my point remain. If she were to declare Lordeaeron her again and claim she will make it a place for both living and undead, I think the combined number of living and undead who will support her will outnumber the undead who will reject her.

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Maybe she does, maybe she doesn’t. If she ever wanted to try and establish herself as the new royalty, she’d have a devil of a time getting it. Most of the Forsaken straight up don’t want Menethil monarchy ruling over them.

You’re kind of deluding yourself on that one, Zerde, but you’re not the first.

Even if she could get the numbers you think she can, it wouldn’t matter. Blizzard’s not about to take Lordaeron away from the Forsaken just to give it to the Alliance or make it neutral.

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I think there is a possibility, albeit a remote one, that we will have something involving Lordaeron in the future.

As far as it is known, the forsakens are doomed to extermination because they no longer have the means to reproduce, since they have lost all their valkyrs.

In an eventual plot involving Yrel in the future I think one way for her to gain popularity and eventually ally with the Scarlet boys that are mentioned from time to time would be for her to conquer Lordaeron for the Alliance. I think that if Yrel returns, with Anduin gone, she would probably do acts of good faith, especially for the EK Alliance, which would make her a likely candidate for the position of leader of the faction, dethroning Turalyon.

If she promised wealth and influence to the nobles in these conquered lands it would be even easier for her. A little GOT-type intrigue in the Alliance would be interesting. Mainly something involving the house of the nobles, considering that Blizzard hasn’t completely forgotten about them as was evident in the human heritage quest.

This would be a way to preserve Turalyon from suffering from vilain bat, and it would also be interesting because the kaldorei would naturally oppose her.

This type of plot could also help bring some resolution to the Scourge now roaming Northrend, with them eventually offering support to the Forsaken if they are driven out by Yrel.

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Just remembered the descriptions for each Alliance nation in the Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness manual. These descriptions gave some background to each nation/kingdom and had some bada$$ art of that nation’s/kingdom’s banner. They do a decent job at differentiating the different Alliance nations beyond just the physical color you see in a typical Warcraft II game, and while short, they do lay a solid foundation that can be expanded upon for deeper lore of the human kingdoms (some of which has actually been translated into World of Warcraft):

Azeroth (modern day Stormwind)
Leader: Regent Lord Anduin Lothar
Nation Color: Blue
Background: Before the coming of the Age of Chaos when the Portal was first opened, the kingdom of Azeroth was the mightiest of all Human nations. Ruled by the wise and just King Llane, Azeroth stood as a beacon of light and truth throughout the known world. After the First War, Azeroth and all of its lands were devastated by the Horde. With King Llane dead, Sir Lothar took charge of the shattered armies of Azeroth and led the survivors across the Great Sea to the shores of Lordaeron. King Terenas, ruler of Lordaeron, agreed to support the landless Azerothiens. The people of Azeroth settled near the Southshore region of Lordaeron, pledging their loyalty to the Alliance. Battle-hardened and brave, the last of the once great armies of Azeroth now seek retribution for the loss of their homeland.

Lordaeron
Leader: King Terenas
Nation Color: White
Background: Ruled by the benevolent King Terenas, the nation of Lordaeron stands as the last bastion of hope for humanity. The armies of Lordaeron were the first to heed the call to arms issued by Sir Lothar and the people of Azeroth. As patron of the Alliance, King Terenas has assumed the heavy mantle of leadership to protect all who abide in his domain. The armies of Lordaeron are deeply religious and are driven by the belief that humanity must stand steadfast against the blasphemous onslaught of the Horde.

Stromgarde
Leader: Thoras Trollbane
Nation Color: Red
Background: The kingdom of Stromgarde retains a strict martial philosophy which makes it a highly regarded addition to the Alliance. Situated amongst the foothills of the Alterac Mountains, Stromgarde serves as a sentinel against any invasion across the Orc-controlled borders of Khaz Modan. Possessing a long history of warfare against the Trolls, the warriors of Stromgarde are well prepared to engage in open combat with all
enemies of humanity.

Kul Tiras
Leader: Lord Admiral Daelin Proudmoore
Nation Color: Green
Background: Before the First War, the far ranging merchant ships of Kul Tiras made it the most prosperous nation in the known world. When the Orcs began to raid the coastal settlements of Lordaeron, Admiral Proudmoore took it upon himself to construct an armada of warships. At the behest of his long time friend Anduin Lothar, Proudmoore has pledged the assistance of his merchant-nation to the Alliance.

Gilneas
Leader: Genn Greymane
Nation Color: Black
Background: Despite the impending Orcish invasion, Gilneas has remained separate from the Alliance of Lordaeron. As ruler of one of the strongest Human nations, Genn Greymane is convinced that his own armies can deal with any threat, and has therefore remained unmoved by Lord Lothar’s pleas for unity. Despite this apparent disdain for the Alliance, the denizens of Gilneas harbor no fondness for the Orcs or their allies and are prepared to meet them blade for blade.

Dalaran
Leader: The Kirin Tor
Nation Color: Violet
Background: Dalaran is a small, magocratic nation ruled by a conclave of Wizards known as the Kirin Tor. The capital of Dalaran is the Violet Citadel at Cross Island. This nexus of supernatural forces is home to the four great towers that are sanctum to many of the land’s greatest sorcerers. The Kirin Tor are strong supporters of the Alliance and to its cause have devoted the knowledge contained within their voluminous libraries as well as the power of their awesome magiks.

Alterac
Leader: Lord Perenolde
Nation Color: Orange
Background: Alterac is the weakest of the Human nations and is only a minor contributor of troops and equipment to the Alliance. Although Lord Perenolde praises Lothar and Terenas for their ongoing efforts, he is beset by the fear that when the Horde comes, the Alliance will fail, and only the surrender of his forces and his sovereignty will save the lives of his subjects. Perenolde alone knows whether or not - when the final call to arms is sounded - Alterac will fight for its freedom alongside the other nations of the Alliance.

Unfortunately Ironforge, Gnomeregan and Quel’thalas aren’t described in the same way as the human nations in the manual. Almost 30 years ago, Blizzard wrote a solid basis for what the human nations could have been.

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68

Another problem with the humans kingdoms that i haven’t seen many people bring up is that a lot of the royal families or their family names are pretty much doomed to fade off within 1 more generation. At least as it currently stands. There’s a repeating trend of the Royals/Leaders having either no children, their children are killed off or the male heir is killed off.

Wrynns: Anduin has no heirs nor is he married. There’s no mention or indication he plans to produce an heir. We haven’t seen or heard of any other extended Wrynn family members.

Greymanes: Liam Greymane dies. Although Tess is still around, the Greymane name could very well be finished. Unless she passes that name onto any future children of hers.

Trollbanes: Danath is the last Trollbane unless they write some story that he had Children in Outland. Or that there’s other Trollbanes we have yet to meet. Danath had a nephew in the RPG books who i believe was a Stormwind Guard named Christoph that they could introduce. But currently, there are no other Trollbanes we know of.

Proudmoores: Jaina Proudmoore is still around but has no children obviously. BFA Introduced Tandred Proudmoore. But again, as far as we know, he also has no children and is not married. So as it stands, there’s no younger generation of Proudmoores either.

Perenoldes: The Perenolde family could very well be wiped out. It’s likely that Aliden is dead since he was removed in CATA. Though you never know if they could bring him back sometime. Another RPG hook though is Isiden Perenolde, the nephew of Aiden who fled to Gilneas.

Menethils: Calia may or may not have a daughter that’s alive/undead

I don’t know if all these families were intentionally written like this or if it was just a coincidence. But it’s crazy to me how they’re all essentially on the verge of just dying off and none of them seem to have any desire to produce an heir.

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I suppose in the Warcraft universe it’s not as big of a deal, and power within the bloodline forever isn’t the ultimate goal, just power within the bloodline for as long as it exists as viable. If not, it can be passed to another family that earned favor, or enough power and respect themselves to take over. At least with humans, this seems to be the case with what we’ve seen. Thoradin’s Empire may have influenced this, as it was not his lineage that took over Arathi, but Trollbane’s.

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I would LOVE that actually. That wouldn’t even be unheard of. This guy for example, whose parents came to Outland as part of the Sons of Lothar, was born there : https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Caretaker_Dilandrus

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That’s true. I should say that i’m fine with there being a changing of the guard from time to time. I have no problem if the ruling family of a Kingdom changes. The story does need to evolve overtime. It’s refreshing to see other noble families or powerful figures step up to become the new King/Queen or whatever the ruling position is. My main problem with this though is that it’s essentially happening to every human nation at the same time.

I remember seeing that character waaaay back in the day and even though he was minor, i always thought he was interesting. I’ve always wondered if there were other Humans or even Dwarves, Gnomes and High Elves who were born to soldiers in Outland. And if they moved to Azeroth or chose to remain in Outland even after the war since that was their home.

Danath having a son or daughter that was born in Outland though would be fine by me. Given the unique background but also so that the Trollbane dynasty can live on. That’s one royal family i wouldn’t want to be erased from the setting.

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You’re asking mostly American devs to write monarchies with some actual thought put into it other than 'Kings and queens are a common fantasy trope, may as well stick ‘em in’ :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

My gut instinct tells me Anduin and Taelia are gonna get married at some point in the future. As for the rest, idk, it may be sorted out too. Perhaps with the rumoured ‘old world’ remake.

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At this point, can the humans from lordaeron still call themselves refugees? They’ve lived somewhere else longer than they lived in lordaeron.

Turalyon has lived in another part of the galaxy for atleast a thousand years, apparently. Can’t we just let them make a new home and call it “new lordaeron” and let the actual inhabitants of lordaeron just… idk, keep living in lordaeron?

Maybe humans could co-exist with the undead in lordaeron. Calia could lead the efforts. Then something interesting could happen, like old Sylvanas supporters who are attempting to sabotage the peace. And both factions can find out who’s doing it and put them down.

Idk, I just don’t like the idea of the forsaken being evicted. “you guys died defending this place and unlived here for the past 30 years have to leave, so these old people who fled instead of defending the country can move in and inhabit the ruins/sewers.”

Just doesn’t sit right imo.

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They in all honesty probably could live in harmony and co-exist so long as the Lordaeronian refugees adopted the Argent Crusade approach/policy (read: stop trying to kill them and accept the fact the Forsaken aren’t going anywhere) versus trying to drive them out with swords, guns and tanks.

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I mean, the same can be said of Gilneans. The gilneans have been refugees for 22 years. The Lordaeron survivors 30 years.

I assume that is part of Turalyon’s whole “reclaiming old holding”. I would also point out that was what Theramore initially was even if it didnt get a “new Lordearon” name.

That is essentially what happened during the Gathering. The factions are not exactly in open war at the moment.

I do wondef what will happen to Southshore now.

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In the personal rework I’d like to see, seeing the Scarlet Enclave and Tyr’s Hand turn into a Lordearon remnant and Alliance aligned settlement wouldn’t be a bad idea. It’s one of the few not totally blighted areas in the zone, at least enough to support the Crusade back in the day, kinda walled off from the undead, Scourge and Forsaken alike, and have the Argent’s in the middle kinda as peace keepers to make sure Belmont and Faranell don’t plague them tomorrow.

Of course the Horde gets a little extra presence up north and west, but at least the not undead Lordearon folks have a sliver of a home so they can stop complaining.

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From a gameplay perspective i don’t like the idea of races losing their capitols especially given how long it takes for the story progress and get resolution. But i don’t like the idea of Lordaeron survivors just being ignored because the Forsaken are a thing. There were plenty of Lordaeron survivors who did NOT flee. They just ended up getting killed or forced out by the Forsaken as well.

Both Humans and Forsaken have a connection to Lordaeron.

This is what i’ve wanted to see for a while. I’ve always thought the Tyr’s Hand/Scarlet Enclave area was a cool place and it’s the perfect area to have as the capitol of an Alliance Lordaeron. It’s a relatively big area as it stands but could be made even better in a revamp. But it’s also a historical Lordaeron city in the old Kingdom. It’s a place where the Human survivors can have a home and it offers some closure and resolution to the Lordaeron issue for the Alliance without taking anything from the Forsaken.

Given Turalyon is the most notable Lordaeronian noble we know of right now, they should make that area where his family was from. It would tie in perfectly.

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Turalyon was a priest if I remember right. Where do you get your information from?

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The problem I have with the idea of living Humans and undeads co-existing in UC/Lordaeron is that the Forsaken are NOT a continuation of the kingdom of Lordaeron. They are a nation of the plagued. The bulk of the population may be made up of former Lordaeronians, but many Forsaken were never from Lordaeron : there are undead Humans from other kingdoms such as Kul Tiras, but also people from Quel’thalas (Sin’dorei Dark Rangers, Banshees), from Darnassus (Kaldorei Dark Rangers), from Gnomeregan (Leper Gnomes), and other types of lesser but still sentient undeads like Geists and Abominations whose origins are unknown (or, in the case of Abominations… diverse). Many people were raised and joined the ranks of the Forsaken when Lordaeron was long gone.

All of these people have no connection to Lordaeron whatsoever. What unites them as a nation is not Lordaeron, but being plagued. Living Humans have no business there.

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Lordaeron is dead. Stormwind is the leading human nation now.

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I’m all for including within each faction each angle of the Lordaeron debate:

  1. Humans forever pining after their lost Lordaeron (both those who want to build a New Lordaeron and those who want to take the old one back for the living)
  2. Humans willing to live alongside their now-undead Lordaeronian compatriots
  3. Forsaken who hold onto their old Lordaeronian lives and will fight to keep Lordaeron out of Alliance (Stormwind’s) hands
  4. Forsaken who hold onto their old Lordaeronian lives and will work with their living Lordaeronian compatriots
  5. Forsaken who have shed their past and refuse to give up their capital

There’s plenty of good stories to be told just by having these different groups interact, without even having to change the status quo.

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Considering where the story is at the moment with Tyr and Tirisfal clearly being shown as an important part of the Humans lore. Now would be a great time for them to give Turaylon and Alonous faol some screen time. Really should give humans some investment in seeing Tyr come back as much as the dragons have an interest.

I do feel Lordearon should come back to the Alliance, It is the focal point of all the Alliance story from Warcraft 2 and 3 without it the Alliance and specifcally humans are seriously lacking in ties to its history, especially considering the Blood elves are also Horde. Humans need Lordearon back as a city to also give the Human story some nuance so we aren’t stuck with “high king Anduin” as the only ruler. have some disagreements between the nations.

The Forsaken would be best suited to taking over swathes of Northrend and facing off against scourge warlords. They should have a focus on saving the Feral scourge and building up their number from the Undead there. Not to mention the Scourge originated in Northrend it makes sense that they base themselves there. There is nothing in Lordearon to keep the forsaken there other than the terrible legacy that sylvanas left them.

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