Era paladins were bis healers never running out of mana. I assume it will get that way again due to illumination. So that should counter balance your complaints about mana at 60.
Yeah no to Reck-Bomb, that’s just going to lead to Ret one-shotting things in PvE.
Drop it down to 50% weapon damage and it’s more feasible - especially since with the improved itemization, getting 20%+ crit isn’t entirely unfeasible.
Mana for ONLY one person if you’re casting, if you’re at a crit breakpoint, if you’re geared enough, as ONE spec only
versus
100% mana uptime permanently for your entire raid by pressing a button once every 60 seconds that also provides you with 20% damage reduction for no reason.
Do you even read your arguments?
2 Likes
OK, if they take away your OP support abilities.
You are just not being objective. You cannot fathom that your class may be far better of than you actually think they are.
Suggestions from the EU side paladins I was asked to post here:
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Horn of Lord on Legs runes
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[12:15 PM]
Exorcism Rune combined with Art of War or becomes a book drop
- [12:16 PM]
Divine Sacrifice to chest
- [12:16 PM]
For Holy paladin
- [12:16 PM]
HoR usable with 2 handers with damage penalty
- [12:16 PM]
New Rune Improved Sanctuary Aura
- [12:17 PM]
Holy Damage increased by additional 10%, party members affected by another aura deal 2 % increased damage, 5% of your Holy Damage is converted into Mana
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I absolutely love that he brought up holy paladins never going oom, not even gonna reference the shamanistic rage in the room, but he picked the one healer in the game that has received nothing new in sod for healing. Every other healers has gotten broken healing spells, healing buff runes, and instant cast heals. Paladins get to do exactly the same as era paladins, just on two targets. Whoa !!! Big wow, much changes . Lmfao 
2 Likes
OP support abilities?
You mean like… idk, Blessing of Kings - that Horde gets a superior version of?
You mean like… idk, Blessing of Might - that GoA/SoE is better than?
You mean like… idk, Blessing of Salvation - which is numerically worse in every avenue than Spirit of the Alpha + gives less threat passively to shaman + gives more threat than salv reduces + gives more % physical?
You mean like… idk, Cleanse? where disease/poison cleansing totems are able to do it passively to an entire group simultaneously, but better?
You mean like… idk, Blessing of Wisdom - that is inferior in every single solitary avenue to Shamanistic Rage?
You mean like… idk, Consecrate for AoE dungeon tanking? That Shaman gets Fire Nova at ranged for stronger+burstier+instant threat from safety? Or infinite LS? Oh what’s that? Consecrate requires 11 points Holy - completely crippling your talent spendature/options, and Fire Nova requires… clicking two Rocks in Maraudon entrance ?
You mean like… idk, Guarded by the Light mana regen coupled with -50% healing? That Shaman gets Shamanistic Rage? Which has no -%healing coefficient on it?
You mean like… idk, Shaman getting 100% crit immunity/defense cap permanently for free, that Paladin doesn’t get at all?
You mean like… idk, Shaman getting the game’s fastest recovering taunt + interrupt, that can be downranked for zero mana cost?
You mean like… idk, Sheath of Light - that Mental Dexterity is superior to in every single avenue?
You mean like… idk, Tremor Totem not consuming a rune slot like Paladin’s does?
You mean like… idk, natural self-combat rez via Ankh?
You mean like… idk, getting free access to fear ward now?
What exact support utility do you believe Paladin provides that Shaman does not provide equal if not better than? Because there is none. None at all. Not a single solitary one, period. “NaUruRRR, PAlADunR hAS BOOBl and BOOBL is not FUN cUZ I kan INSTNAT KRILL eEry1 BUT pAlADin noOB buuBLERR!!!” is not a valid argument.
Your only argument is that Paladin’s can allow Mages to flourish more proficiently in end-game raids during LIP+Chal shout aoe packs. That’s it. That’s the whole thing. Trash clears expedited without risk of a mage dying. In spider wing. Woo.
I play Rogue, you clown. I don’t play Paladin - there’s no reason when Shaman is seethingly/screamingly the best class in the game; playing Alliance at all is trolling yourself. I’m just capable of objectively looking at balance and understanding that Shaman/Horde get every single solitary thing that Alliance get - but better. Including map mobility, world buffs, rune economy, raid spot allocations, raid access, raid mobilization, world buff mobilization, ease of use, PvE racials, etc.
8 Likes
Starting a very long drawn out slow clap for this man right here !!! Excellently stated !!!
2 Likes
This was an utterly beautiful dismantling of attempted gas lighting from the other commenter. Lol
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My god paladins are in a sorry state. Shamans are literally gods.
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Get good, play ally then face a shaman with LS.
So OP mentioning Windfury in opening post, (which, admittedly, I only read the TL:DR summary) has made me realize something possibly unrelated. I never actually see that many posts in these paladin cry threads about hunters providing Kings, which is something I thought there would be more indignation over. Now is this just because I didn’t start reading this forum until the end of phase 2 and thus had missed some salt, or is it more like that paladins themselves didn’t enjoy providing kings and were happy to offload that duty to a class that can buff the raid effortlessly?
It screws over ret to get kings, prots normally would but aren’t going prot, and holy could as well but aren’t right now. But more so than that one hunter buffs the whole raid and as long as there alive the buff is up. It’s just so much more efficient that way. And if your short on paladins you have to start playing who doesn’t get what buff. Lion was actually a nice change, vs a paladin specifically having to go get kings, imo .
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my complaint is that horde have two classes that can provide WF vs ally having only one and the number of melee classes being increased. and yes, because of the tedious nature of doing blessings nearly constantly we’re happy hunters can provide a superior version that doesn’t need to be refreshed. keep in mind we still have to do might, salv, wis, light
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Our buffs even with 10 min are so tedious, especially since other classes with longer buffs got an even longer version lol. And our greater blessings aren’t online this phase. And druids and priests are, not sure about mage, haven’t seen one, and haven’t looked it up.
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There is a great writeup about this on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1c1d1ig/paladin_problemstate_p1p2p3_detailed/
The forums will seethe because Divine Shield exists, but outside L2P issues Ret is in a terrible state, and it only looks more and more grim as we progress.
I would 100% be open to swapping Divine Shield for a Shield of Vengeance type ability as a defensive. It would stop the hair follicles of horde from falling out when they see “IMMUNE” and will also teach them not to blow their load into a target at the wrong time. I cannot count the number of times I’ve bubbled and watched a player sit on top of me trying to still do damage waiting for bubble to expire… but that’s just horde braincells at peak capacity.
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Nerf pally defense cds for more damge make them glass cannons.
most of us do most of our pvp with bubble on cooldown constantly so this whole narrative just doesnt add up
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i agree their burst is too high and needs lowering
paladin bubble is the worst ability ever according to paladins but they still use it every cd