Mistweavers and Resto Druids are one-trick ponies though. They just do raw HPS and don’t bring any kind of real utility. Mistweavers also only parse big if the other healers are underperforming or a couple of them die. If you got 3 healers pulling their weight then a Mistweaver isn’t always going to be #1 on hps.
A good Resto Druid who rejuvs the entire raid 24/7 will pretty much clap every other healer in hps.
Holy Priests just have a physical cap on their maximum hps because were throttled by 10-12s cds and Holy Word resets.
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I’ve been bursting 300k DPS on trash pulls in M+. It’s so glorious!
PI
Holy Fire
Chastise
Divine Star
Holy Fire
Holy Fire
Holy Nova
Holy Fire
Smites for single target/Novas for AOE
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This part.
It’s also disingenuous to suggest that Mistweavers are somehow the balance team’s “favourites” when it’s been bottom-tier in raid/m+ for several expansions now. One season doing well doesn’t erase literal years of being memeweaver status.
It’s not even head-and-shoulders above other healers if you look at WCL. It’s not like resto druid/preservation in S1, or holy paladin in S2 levels of numbers when comparing healers to their peers in overall performance.
And even with it’s raw HPS output it’s behind disc priest and resto druid in M+ spec representation above +20s.
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My issue here is that you could have casted anything else, and these have cooldowns.
At 1 point, your PoM/CoH are going to reset as much duration as casting renew does, apotheosis or not. It’s just not significant. If you just need a holy word reset, you were better off casting heal, and if you needed a sanc reset, you could cast renew and get the same benefit.
I guess the argument would be that you want to use PoM/CoH at those specific moments - and that’s kind of fair - but it’s not going to impact your HPS much, realistically. The worst case scenario here is missing 2 seconds of Salv reset for each Apoth window - because again, you had a better option if the goal was resetting Serenity. With how short the answered prayers window is, you wouldn’t even waste much if you delayed a little.
Okay, I was pretty confident lolwell wasn’t going to be the play in mythic+, but I still wasn’t expecting it to do less than 1% of my healing in my +26BRH. (0.9% according to details).
The main issue is you just can’t let people sit below 50% long enough in mythic+ to get much use out of it. Also you move enough to leave it behind pretty regularly before a quarter of the charges are consumed.
IDK, it might have potential on tyrannical week when the entire group is getting chunked down to 10% hp every boss AoE and the boss fight lasts six minutes (so charges get more of a chance to be used). For fort it’s definitely not the play.
I wish instead of having a 1second ICD it instead would have a per-person CD? Even something like “the recipient of the lightwell cannot be healed again until its healing has run its course” (aka six seconds until the renew ends). If when your group gets chunked, five charges go off it’d be lovely. Basically a sanctify with a forty yard range which is kind of one of the glaring issue holy has - we have nothing for burst AoE healing when people are spread.
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Clearly, the point went over your head, again.
The point isn’t “Mistweavers should be nerfed”. The point is “Holy Priests shouldn’t be nerfed”. At least, they shouldn’t have been nerfed preemptively and if it had to be, it shouldn’t have been nerfed to that extent.
“It’s not even head-and-shoulders above other healers if you look at WCL.”
What’s really disingenuous is you said this after claiming you looked at WCL. It’s like pointing to oranges and claiming they are apples.
“And even with it’s raw HPS output it’s behind disc priest and resto druid in M+ spec representation above +20s.”
Cool, but clearly, I am talking about raid.
Mystic Touch, their avoidance and healing buff are absolutely real utility.
I agree with Resto Druids though, they deserved their buffs because they don’t do anything in raids other than have raw healing.
No, the point is is you made an objectively false claim. You compared holy priest getting preemptively nerfed alongside talent changes, and stated the same didn’t occur with mistweaver. Mistweaver literally got an aura nerf one week prior to getting talent changes, which is literally preemptively getting nerfed. Just pointed out that your original statement was misinformation.
And yes, for Heroic raiding Holy Priest is barely behind Mistweaver in terms of HPS #s on WCL. Considering that’s where the vast majority of players are raiding it seems the most relevant.
The amount of DPS a holy priest can output in PvP is pretty devastating. PvP just felt tanky before, mostly annoying opponents until they give up or you win by attrition. Now, with the way empyreal blaze works, you can do much more than just annoy your opponent and feel just as tanky.
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Yeh, it’s not that good for M+. You’d be better off using Lightweaver or Divine Word.
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PVP-wise, the only thing that’s got me about gating damage behind Chastise is that as Holy I sometimes need to save my ranged stun for when I need to cross the map when DPS force me into a bad situation and SW: Death/Fade alone won’t keep me from being chain-CC’d.
Other than that, I generally like the changes as far as M+ and PVP are concerned.
I still think there is this awful tension centered on Prayer of Healing. Not only is it a worthless spell to cast in almost all situations, but other talent points that we do use are gated behind it.
They nerfed it pretty immensely alongside the usability buffs.
Old LW renew was actually really substantial and very quick healing - it just never really got full use, you couldn’t move it and its CD was too long to recast it anywhere. I did meme with it in a couple dungeons way back when they buffed its heal (while we still had brackenhide) and it was actually kinda OK for healing if your party played to it. Now it’s basically like casting a non-crit flash heal 15x with a renew attached. It’s VERY slow and the renew will overwrite itself if it hits the same target a couple times, lowering its potential even.
It’s still good healing overall if it gets used, but it’s very slow in comparison to last patch, which makes it pretty worthless for the speed of dungeon damage.
Here’s my thoughts after playing it casually in several dungeons…
Revert the 7% healing nerf. Holy Priest was not a top healer before the changes, and it still isn’t.
At times where you don’t need to heal much, tying Empyreal Blaze to Chastise allows Holy Priest to do too much damage for a healer because of the ability to reduce Chastise cooldown. The damage rotation needs more rework.
At times where you need to mostly heal, damage takes too many GCDs for there to not be some sort of passive healing or healing-related-effect on Holy Fire.
Tying damage to Chastise prevents players from using it properly as a soft interrupt.
Too many talent points are damage-related, need more healing options.
Ability to spam Holy Nova between pulls for Chastise cooldown reduction feels dumb (should only be in-combat or when it hits an enemy).
Baseline Renew is trash. It is as mana-inefficient as Flash Heal and only heals for half as much per cast (it does not benefit from mastery). This is only about 5% of my health over 15 seconds.
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Guild finally killed M Fyrakk after 400+ pulls (cringe) so I got a chance to test different builds on a raid reclear.
Here’s my 2-cents:
- Lightwell was useful on every fight except the first 3 bosses (Tree, Ingira, Volcoross). These boss fights just don’t do enough raid damage to drop people <50%.
- Divine Word Sanctuary is kind of awkward to use with boss timers with its 1 minute cd. Also, a lot of people move out of it.
- Resonant Words doesn’t stack which often leads to wasting its charges if you go multiple Holy Words in a row.
- Epiphany is still pretty RNG. It’ll often not proc at all and if it does it feeds into Answered Prayers feedback loop.
- Lightweaver is awkward to use for raid at least with movement and is dependent on Surge of Light procs mainly.
Still on the fence if I’m playing S4 or not. Figuring I’ll go full Holy for M+ instead of Disc like this season.
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tbh the changes make holy feel like it has no direction at all…
They still want you to go melee for Nova dmg which feels awful as a squishy healer…
Chastise being tied to dmg now makes you sometimes not use it for soft interrupts or full strategic stuns with censure…
Still so many talents for PoM…
End part of the talent tree feels so restrictive with so many 2/2 points
Idk I hope it gets better in TWW, I’m not interested at all playing holy priest as it is rn
I won’t be playing S4, but my sub is still renewed for 6 months anyway so I’ll be keeping tabs on things. It’s a combination of being burnt out from raiding and not being that interested in fated in general.
I’ll be in the beta again so I simped out and bought the heroic edition. I’m just hoping we get a better launch than in DF.
Either way: from my personal opinion I’ve been leaning on the Lightwell build for Mythic raid. I tried 4 different builds (Lightwell, Lightweaver, Divine Word, and Resonant Words/Pontfiex).
I do think that they need to address the end tree talents though because all of them require check boxes being ticked to actually use them. Lightwell is useless if people are >50% hp, Divine Word Sanctuary requires a stacked group, Lightweaver is punishing if you want to Flash Heal spam, and Resonant Words doesn’t stack.
For M+ Divine Word is pretty much the best option because you can 90% of the time use it as a DPS cooldown. It doesn’t solve the main issue in M+ I pointed out in my other post in that Holy completely lacks in AOE heals and has to solve every problem with casting Flash Heal.
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Thanks for all your work as always. I’ll probably play S4, but I switch classes every expansion, so it’s my last go around as HPriest, at least as a main. You were pretty instrumental in my own performance this expansion. People were genuinely surprised at my performance on HPriest, but all I did was read your posts.
Take it easy!
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I’m just getting back into the swing of things and I hadn’t really been playing a ton of holy this xpac, but decided to try it on coming back.
I actually think Lightwell’s kinda good in M+ once you’re at a point where people are getting blasted a bit.
I’m not running any organized groups, so I’m pugging the 21-22 level, but lightwell’s been a nice safety net in the terrible pulls. It can also stabilize high bursting, etc.
It’s definitely not amazing for overall healing, but you can pretty much have it out for every ‘trouble’ pull, and it’s definitely kept renews running and saved me in a couple of the higher pressure situations.
But also I’m very rusty since I barely played the last couple seasons and I’m not great at Hpriest rn. So I went and looked at what top holy priests are doing and am seeing some of them take it for runs too. So I think it’s definitely got merit. Will probably keep running it so long as it feels comfy to me.
I’ve tried out both, with the intent of purposely reducing my healing during LW uptime and more dps. But it’s difficult to do mentally whenever someone is under 2/3 health. My LW heals for much more than my DWSanct but DW is often used for dps procs like Caithyra mentioned, and if ever used on healing, often used at a heal intensive time. I’m sure I’ll continue to use both still based on what I feel like doing. If there are 2 ranges in the group not including myself DWSanctuary gets worse (tho I do tease my guildies “1 heal for the group and 1 single target heal for the ranged sitting by themselves”)
In other news… been running as a DPS in holy, hit 189k on BRH and cleared 200k on everbloom! More than I can do in shadow 
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