Pretty new to mage just wondering how frost vs fire will be in mythic + in the new patch
Depends what key level, but at the decent key levels like 15s fire will probably still be better mainly from the fact that its best legendary for single target is also its best for aoe and frost has a best single target legendary that doesn’t benefit aoe and a really strong aoe one that doesn’t benefit single target. They have one thats decent at both but weaker overall. If you are doing under a 13 key level frost will likely be better though. And there is always the chance that the buffs to freezing winds legendary are very strong for m+ frost. Probably are.
Frost is a lot better than it used to be, but you’ll have an easier time getting into groups as fire. It doesn’t mean that frost isn’t viable, but pugs are rough.
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There’s been many a heated discussion on here about this topic. Fire can be the best dps in the game in m+ and it’s not close. Having said that you need the right covenant, gear and crazy good group ability and coordination. Frost is way more pug friendly and can put out A+ tier dps.
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I wondered about that. Good to know.
Doesn’t frost need the same though? if a pug tank and clueless and pulls out of frost orb then frost mages have a very hard time in m+
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Yeah for sure but to a lesser extent. You can lead mobs with Blizzard and I take double frost nova to help keep them in place plus it has the 50% slow. It hurts Frost less
Last night I still needed a 14 for the weekly so I decide I’ll browse LFG to see if I can help someone that needs it with a 15 instead of just doing a 14. See a 15 NW with a leader that has no timed 15s so I queue up.
“Are you fire?”
“Nah man, frost…does it matter?”
“Lol yeah it matters”
“You do see I have a timed 18 NW right?”
No response. Lol gl bro.
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Cause you cheated…you have timed that 18 as fire… tell the truth! 
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You could just check RIO and clearly see that the +18 that they timed was as Frost.
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The main difference is blizzard is only a ~10 sec cd that also reduces the cd of frozen orb. It allows you to play around an uncoordinated group with less dps loss than fire would have. If you get a botched combust you lose out on a huge portion of your damage.
I think you were making a joke but I’m not sure
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I do not see Freezing Winds take over Glacial Fragments in M+.
Unlike glacial fragments its also useful on boss fights and depending on the key level you will only be pulling 3-4 mobs at a time in which case freezing winds will probably be better. But no, I don’t think it will be better for most higher keys.
As much as I hate to say it. Fire is the new new now since release. I for one cannot play fire mage. I mean I can get down the rotation. I just cant revolve myself on CB. I like the smoothness of Frost. If I had a choice to go fire for gear I would still say no. I enjoy playing frost. If you are doing Mythics under 15 sure for it. I see alot of mages do it fire, but enjoy what you play. Im happy my guild lets me play as frost in raids. As long as we are progressing thats all that matters. Fire is META. You also have to understand frost isnt to far behind. So play what you like. I might go arcane even without a buff.
Mage Tables FTW.
And I bet it was also one of those “checking io” groups too lol
There is no way that this thread will do either spec justice. The best thing for you to do is learn how to play both specs and do what works for you. I tried fire and it works very well. I get why it’s the current meta spec, but I don’t enjoy it in PVE. I play frost for PVE even though I know it’s not as powerful, because it’s more fun for me (personally), but I also know fire mages who LOVE fire and say they didn’t enjoy frost. It’s all personal preference. However, as mentioned previously in this thread, I need to emphasize that even though our single target and multi target legendaries are very nice individually, you have to commit to one or the other for mythic+ and that basically means that you cannot use slick ice on mythic+ bosses because you have to commit to glacial fragments or else your multi-target dps will not be competent.
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Well, to play devil’s advocate here. People buy M+ runs all the time? Your 18 really doesn’t matter to someone if they don’t know you. There’s a chance you paid for a carry, there’s a chance as frost you were dead weight and still got carried…but for free, and there’s a chance you got it legit and carried the dps. 1/3 aren’t great odds when you risk failing your key.
So when someone says “I have a 18, but I don’t play the spec 90% of mages are playing” it kind of red flags that you got carried. After all, what M+ static wouldn’t min max and have you playing fire? Which pug would of invited you to an 18 as a frost?
I’m not calling you a liar, i’m just saying there’s many reasons why they or anyone will be shallow over you not playing the fotm when literally 90% of mages are fire according to BS
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This is so dumb, lol. Just check their logs. If they’re parsing at like 90%++ it’s very obvious they didn’t buy their runs.
For mythic+
Low keys (under 17): Play whatever you want
Unorganized groups: Frost
Well organized groups: Fire
It’s basically just that.
If you wrinkle out all the group chemistry issues, have tanks work with your AoE spells well, have minimal need for defensives, etc. then Fire has several key niches over Frost
- Uncapped AoE on Flamepatch
- Dragon’s Breath disorient which acts as a pseudo-kick - Frost’s CoC isn’t that useful unless you want to help a tank peel. Even then, several other specs in the game do this way better (monk, Balance Druids, etc.)
- Requirement of 1 legendary to burst both ST and AoE. Frost’s Glacial Fragments crutch really shows on Tyranical weeks.
- An actual single target or priority target burst. Frost lacks this. Very important if you don’t want some bosses/mobs to repeat abilities and instead just wish to 1 phase them.
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Both of these reasons are also reasons to not use RIO. Every single person could have bought their runs, meta spec or not. In fact I’d be more wary of people showing the meta spec because they’re more likely to want to pull this scam off on people trying to find appropriate players for their key level.
Yea, I think giving Dragon’s Breath to Frost and Arcane is necessary for dealing with many mob abilities in a M+ run, even if it’s on a longer cooldown (e.g. 40 seconds) or has a shorter duration (2 seconds).
At this point I wouldn’t mind if they just removed flame patch temporarily just to knock fire mages at the top level down. Players need to understand that they aren’t doing MDI level content.
Outside Demonology, Spec doesn’t matter for +18s
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/25#dataset=90&bracket=18&sample=7&class=DPS
And only starts to matter for +22 keys:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/25#dataset=90&bracket=22&sample=7&class=DPS
Although I do want to note that these aren’t normalized by ilvl. So ilvl is probably compensating.