Fire Mage and Enhancement Shaman PvP Tuning - March 15

PVP Arenas
261

You can literally get so much value immediately from just sheeping them, getting max range, then casting fireball busting midcast doing 2 fbs and pyros

You can’t compare that to a burst window that will break your CC before the actual damage starts and even then once you start doing the damage is still a half a second before you actually die to it lmao

The 2nd global already will break your trap, kyrian arrow does damage and breaks trap

If you did explosive shot 2nd that will also break your trap

No matter which of the second two globals you use they both break the trap so they still have 3 full seconds to react ahead of time before the damage has even started

262

I do. Fire damage comes out faster than most other specs, so you’ve got to be on your toes when their go button is available, especially since it’s off global and can be activated during a cast.

This I don’t even know where to start with.

263

Start from the beginning. Don’t forget - such a Poly would have similar duration to Fear or similar CD to Hex, so has much less uptime with DRs taken into account. It is also taken for the cost of one PVP talent, so you lose either Flamecannon, Tinder of even Pyrokinesis.

@Dillon - how is that much different from current situation of MM, who can Double Tap from Stealth at max distance and take more than half of your health with Rapid Fire / Aimed Shot in 2-3 seconds? I suppose in 9.0-9.1 it was even more powerful.

About last paragraph - okay, you need to waste 1-1.5 additional GCD to start your go (not 2, because CC would be broken when the ability hits, which is usually not at 0.01s of its GCD) compared to Combustion. However, MM has also decent sustained damage, mobility and instant ranged CC. He had it even when he could one-shot. Does it not count?

264

Didn’t bother to read all this wall text BUT any way can we nerf rogues pls an nerco dh actually insane blizzard pls take a look at theses ape specs

265

Mage has just as amazing mobility, spammable CC in general is much better

When you played Kyrian your sustained was dog lol

Idk man you’re going to compare different classes over and over even when there’s really no issues for mage that are anything but you’re own

I’m bored of talking to you though at this point peace

266

Vlsal has been responding almost non-stop for about 10 hours now.

1 Like
267

Still not convinced though. Spammable casted CC that heals your target by 10% of max health per second is not better in 1v1 than instant non-spammable CC that doesn’t. Mage’s amazing mobility aka Shimmer pales in comparison to possibility to use most abilities on the move, without risk of being interrupted and locked on part of your abilities and MM mobility in general, they even have Disengage as their own “quickly move X yards” ability.

I wouldn’t call the stated situation of 83 / 17 just my own issue.

Peace.

2 Likes
268

Just as was Dillon? What does that lead to?

269

Blizzard, fire mages are only OP when people coordinate CC. These nerfs aren’t helpful.

Test your game!

270

I think this is the difference in your guys opposing view points. If I may insert myself here?

Fire mages are prob the best 1v1 class in the game rn out of all classes. duels, bgs, skirmishes, cross kills in arena, wpvp. No other class kills most of the roster with ease.

I don’t lose much its pretty rare and its usually to a really well played fury who is running impending or DK running AMS tank legendary with spelleater.

That being said, Vlsal is also correct. Mages who cant and don’t play the class as well or have a firm understanding of every match up, all the little ins and outs of everything have an immensely difficult time. Its very much a EXTREMELY high skill floor class for 1v1. If you are an average player, new to the game, don’t know much about 1v1 situations or 1vX

Every single class/spec will run you over period. You just have to know how to play the game, you have to know what to trade, what to punish and when to go.

As for spriests complaints? I farm spriests 1v1, you can legit run triune/blazing/prismatic cloak blink and tempest and sandbag his globals with purges while you wreck him, this applies to shaman too. Ask any of my R1 friends like Bih or Jags what its like to 1v1 fire, they tilt off planet from my heals alone.

I just feel like there is a huge disconnect between what you guys and many other members of community discuss regarding mages. A very well played mage is frustrating to deal with in 3s or any 1v1 situation.

A very average/subpar/inexperienced or just getting their bearings mage is a huge difference and often the frustrated ones still learning to navigate the class and not die to every class/spec they run into.

Heck even a amateur rsham/holy/disc/rdruid will trivially solo a mage of this caliber. The majority of mage complains stem from these mages and everyone is super quick to dismiss them rightfully so bc they need to git gud. Just understand the bridge from low end mage to 1v1 god is a big bridge to cross for people who havent been playing for years or arent capable pvpers.

Mage just happens to be a class with no middle ground. You’re either 1v1, 1vX god mage that makes every one rage and want class nerfed, or you’re inexperienced mage getting solo’d by holy priests and resto druids raging about every pitfall of class. Its not a pleasant experience for the average player who just feels like every other DPS class that can hold its own 1v1. Take a look at graycen playing 2s how hard that guy has to work to kill even a 1500 DH going full throttle, and he’s a multi R1. Just how mage goes, adding a stun would make it A LOT easier and by that i mean trivial for mages of all XP to win fights again, just not sure we need it or its the right move if we gotta give up stuff for it. Actually we dont need it but it would be hilarious to have deep back and 100-0 combust someone inside of it for the 1 day it lasted before forums exploded.

just my 2 cents

1 Like
271

That’s entirely deserved

You can’t just be the best class in the game and have everything handed to you for free

Part of the problem in 3s right now as RMP, you don’t need to play well enough for the reward

272

I don’t disagree. I personally couldn’t come up with anything either to alleviate it and make mages easier for average players without pushing them over the top for higher tier gameplay. Not really possible and I’ve thought on it heavily. Just nuance of playing a mage really. You either stomp everyone or get stomped until you figure it out.

I come across some undeserved wins at time, but I’m never one to look a gift horse in the mouth.

I already have my cake and I’m eating it too. Call me diabeto.

273

What about rogues lol come on

274

It’d be interesting if WoW shared its data as to win and pick rates and stuff like other games did. Could see that sub-Rival Sub has a 20-30% win rate with anything other than a Fire mage for instance.

276

I wouldn’t call that deserved. Mages being good in RMP doesn’t justify that. Once again - Rogue is a member of the same comp, so has the same power in XvX, but has much easier time in 1v1. Why shouldn’t Mages be allowed to?

Asking to bring Mage’s difficulty in 1v1 in line with other classes doesn’t instantly make them a best class in the game, it just makes them on the level of Rogues and Ferals.

@Setup - why do you think that the suggested Improved Polymorph talent wouldn’t work? It will open possibility for Mage to try to wear down and kill his enemy between Combustion goes. So, instead of Combusting → running away 1 minute+ → Combusting, you can try to kill or at least wound the enemy in-between. Currently that won’t work, because if you Poly them, they will heal to full and GPie drops them to around 70%, but without Combustion Mage doesn’t have enough damage to finish them and they would just heal themselves or use a minor defensive.

With this talent, Mage will sacrifice part of his damage or survivability (1 PVP talent) and part of his possibility to peel (less duration or decent CD for Polymorph), but get an opportunity to try to wear down enemies instead of just running / hiding / resetting Combustion. It is to some extent a buff in 1v1, but mainly it is a change to playstyle. You yourself said that you have doubts that you would pick it, so even you don’t think about it as such a massive buff, more like a gimmick.

This talent will have its pros and cons in 2v2 like against 2 damage dealers (you can spec it to not heal them while peeling, but sacrifice a part of Poly uptime on non-kill targets), but it is arguably a bad pick for 3v3. I remember that you said that RMP could use Poly without healing to do more swaps, but to do that, they will constantly have less uptime on one of their major CC on its target (or inability to recast it after being trinketed / dispelled / close to getting expired).

So, as a result, it is a buff / alternative playstyle for Mages in 1v1, a tool with pros and cons in 2v2 and a tool that often can be more harmful than helpful in 3v3. As a result, it makes Mages better / easier mostly in 1v1.

277

WM off durotar? lol

278

@Kaivax

Any chance we can take a look at the new Gladiator’s Resolve trinkets, specifically the Cosmic Gladiator’s Echoing Resolve trinket? It is extremely toxic into “setup” comps and allows people who wear it to prolong enemy goes simply by existing instead of using their tools to disrupt the enemy setup. At the very least an 30-45 sec ICD on the trinket is really needed.

279

to add to this

selective conduit nerfing is pretty good

dh conduits probably need looked at, specifically “viscous ink” and “fel defender”

they passively reduce magic damage by far too large of an amount and blur has practically no cooldown

dh doing high damage is fine but they need to actually die

3 Likes
280

Have they tried fixing blur which has given 80% instead of 50% dodge since 9.1

281

High damage, but not that high damage. Nerf the demon soul damage increase to 10% (from 20%)

The demon shouldn’t break them out of CC either.

3 Likes