That’s a good thread tittle.
Next time someone who’s parsing at the top in their run wants to complain about being “dead last”, they should heed your words.
"Quick question
My guild is AoTC, and we decided to push mythic this go round. Im the only Feral. Im averaging about the 75th percentile and am usually/'almost/always top 4 or 5 for damage every boss…but I saw the rankings showing Feral at bottom…am i going to have to worry about being benched??"
That was your initial question in dreamgrove.
Now look at the initial statement in this thread.
Rub two brain cells together and tell me …is this person coming from an individual perspective or the data of the collective?
You two are like the ferals version of uncle toms. Collectively things need to change but you out here linking individual instances of exceptions when the collective data already proves otherwise.
The same people that responded to you in that post have posted multiple times about ferals requireing buffs and changes…do you know why?
Because you twisted the OPs initial thread into something you two wanted to circle jerk about…they are completely seperate discussions. You both do this constantly.
You surface read someones post and just flip it to a narrative and discussion you think is right and have a grasp on.
The individual discussion you two are on the right track…but the moment you use that to bludgeon the collective discussion its like i am watching two babys first chat bots parrot horsecrap back.
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You want to know why the collective discussion and the rankings list do not matter and why its not worth paying attention to unless youre in that top .5% of players where the entire guild/raid is parsing at 95 perctentile and better? Because:
Specifically those last two sentences. No one here is playing at the level where those rankings hold any truth or pertain to anyones true rankings within their raid.
The individual wants to talk about the collective as if theyre represented in that collective data. Theyre not. But they cry wolf like they are.
well its a good thing you can literally organise that data at various different percentiles right?
I mean only the top .5% of have any right to talk about balance according to you gatekeepers.
Surely feral isnt last at nearly every breakpoint right? Oh it is.
Just stop paying attention to all the data it means nothing to us 4head. Metas, attitudes dont trickle down right? all this will just stop happening if we stop talking about it. If only we could just ignore reality.
Not everyone plays with above average players as their entire group …there has to be a bottom end.
Move guilds? get better? pug?
Yeh all things one person can do. You know what they can also do? advocate for spec/class changes so they dont have to do those things that other specs/classes dont have to think about.
Both things matter.
It took feral being played in MDI to make pugging keys even remotely possible time wise. Perma forced into a static group that could tolerate me playing feral.
Ah….yes.
Why better yourself as a player to reach your maximum potential when you can just cry and ask blizzard to make the game easier.
Your parents must be so proud.
Can you hold two thoughts in your head?
You can do both…
You can advocate for change to remove a handicap while doing your best to deal with it and improve.
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K….
Let’s look at your magical list again.
According to the great prophecy, unholy deathknights are the cream of the crop.
Yet…. This is your reality.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hA94ktfKRqy3ZHnj#fight=15&type=damage-done
LMFAO
What’s the matter, bro?
He was given the same opportunity that you’re asking for ferals, Yet this clown fell flat on his face.
It’s almost like this list doesn’t apply to you or your guild in any way, shape or form.
Why are you pretending it does?
This guy does….
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QcaG9bzd62L3BtH4#fight=38&type=damage-done
I wonder if his guild is worried.
Mine or anothers individual reality does not outweigh a collectives.
Do you think anyone that looks at data looks at it this way? the sciences, acadamia , government research not a single field handling data and reporting would ever look at individuals like this.
If that was ever the case there wouldnt be balance patches.
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Whatever you need to tell yourself, champ.
Your time would be better spent talking to that dk than worrying about ferals dps, mmmk? You are not the problem.
Actually, it does when the collective doesn’t actually impact 95% of the playerbase.
Thats a strawman. No one talked about balance. Even the OP is just playing victim (as is everyone else in the thread)
The reality is: there wasnt enough “'collective” data to properly represent Ferals. Even if we did have enough, would it change their rankings? Would it matter? No
Because the reality is that the individual is not being restrained by that rankings list because becsuse the individual isn’t playing at the level where that data is being pulled from.
And you cant go on with “buff us we’re bottom”. Because as soon as that happens, theres a new last. And then you have to argue to buff them because they’re the new bottom. So on and so forth, the buffing will never end
If you want to discuss “balance” (which no one ever does because:), it’s fine to leave us at the bottom as long as we can talk about hey, on average we are 12% below the top parsing spec. Can we bring it into single digits at least, even if that doesnt move us up in rankings.
But you’re all concerned about an arbitrary rankings list that pertains not at all to any of you.
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Absolutely they do.
When someone conducts a research survey of men and women and they get 99 women and 3 men, do they consider that concrete?
Do you think just because some other males read the results of that study, that theyll take that as gospel even though theyre living proof of differing results?
This raid is heavy single target and somehow blizz flipped feral from Strong Single to heavy aoe damage. It is annoying that this happens top feral when it doesn’t to other specs
DHs would like to have a chat. They follow just about the same trend as Feral
Single target, add cleave, and full aoe are only a few talents different in the tree.
When I’m going through the raid I’m swapping talent loadouts to match the fights. Even as a pretty “OK” player by my own standards I hang at the top of my raid group in all pulls, even with the DHs.
I mean… I’d never turn down a buff 
, but I also don’t feel like it’s needed in my own experiences. Regardless of what the list shows, I’ve outperformed those other “better” specs numerous times in my usual raid group and the pug groups I’ve been in, and I’m nowhere close to the likes of the top % of ferals on average.
Thats because people dont realize that that list assumes everyone is playing equally well.
The one person who steps out of that 95th percentile throws the entire list out the window for everyone.
I mean, is there even a logged run where EVERYONE (dps at least) is running 95% or better? (Not farm runs either)
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We can look at cheesey, he’s #1 “all star” feral at the moment. This kill isn’t full of chads…… but it’s pretty damn close.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aRbtvT1ymzLDVq3j#fight=1&type=damage-done
Note cheesey isnt “dead last”.
How about that.
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This is it really, in a nut shell. It’s not about first or last, it’s about the gap. If the gap is small, it’s balanced. Top or bottom is then going to in large part be determined by:
- individual player skill level
- raid team quality
- gear level (both individual and raid overall)
- random stuff happening on any given night to impact quality
The point isn’t to worry about first or last, it’s about balance. Close the variance down, tighten things up, and then first or last is irrelevant as a collective whole.
These two folks in this thread might rub people the wrong way with their delivery, but the message has been consistently spot on the whole thread. So few feral druids at the top level that the numbers are going to be skewed. As long as folks jump to whatever ‘meta’ spec is doing well, only determined folks will stay with their class, and depending on individual skill level or gear, that would affect whether you see an uptick or downtick, but again, it’s still irrelevant, as the overall dps is easily enough.
The argument now seems to be “I can’t over-dps enough to brag on forums” versus “I can’t bring enough DPS for a raid leader to invite me”. Pretty much ANYONE can bring enough DPS to be good enough. It’s up to the player to do it. If non world first type guilds are being so elitist as to demand so much overkill to not bring someone face rolling to lesser overkill dps values, that’s an issue with the raid leader and/or guild, not the classes.
Logs and data show and prove and validate this, regardless of how it’s presented.
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This is consistently true except on encounters that feature extra targets periodically. Zskarn and Experiments are good examples of this. It costs us too many talent points to add the capability to do that damage, so unless we’re like the only ones doing it we’ll look bad no matter what on those encounters.
I think the changes in 10.1.5 are meant to try and help that, but they hurt M+ in the process so 
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And the problems with the WCL score charts is they don’t give you any idea as to what that spread means in terms of practical DPS. This week on the Mythic Overall damage chart Evoker is top with a score of around 105, feral is last with a score of 85-86. Ok, maybe that’s an acceptable range, maybe it’s not.
You go look at top DPS mythic leader boards boss by boss you can start to put some real numbers to it. I like to compare the 25th best parse to throw out any outliers at the top.
On some bosses we’re over 30k DPS behind. Is that OK? I don’t know, maybe.
Were even 15K Behind on the Assault of Zaqali which is supposedly our niche. Which isn’t bad considering that fight is in the 200k range, but if we’re getting beat in our niche by the class that’s also beating everyone on their niche, there might be a problem. But Evokers, I guess everyone knew they were going to be the hero class for a while.
Overall balance is better compared to the end of Shadowlands. But the beginning of Shadowlands wasn’t that bad either. Some of that is scaling, some of it is flavor of the patch systems, but the trends seems to continue as the expansion progresses.