Feedback: Warrior Hero Talents in The War Within

Classes Warrior
62

The talents feel like this suits arms far more than it does fury, at least from a PvP perspective. The intervene talents don’t feel like they’d be particularly useful on fury in comparison to arms. I see those, I want them on arms instead on first instinct. Especially as somebody that usually babysits tanks in RBGs.

If, and only if, TC completely replaces WW, does this look like it’s going to feel right. Fury’s rotation is currently extremely smooth, and needing to use both WW and TC would feel awful. Just have TC utterly replace WW and use all it’s talents would be perfection for feeling in M+.

Also, random request for them to have glyphs to change the thunder animation’s colours.
I’m a Void Elf, not a Dwarf, so having the pink lightning from the Netherstorm would be sick. This’d help alleviate some concerns about it being too racially themed.

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63

This is everything I was hoping for from mountain thane and more

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64

I don’t main warrior, but I just want to chime in on something.

Hero Talents also retain your combat role and the gear that you use so that you’re not competing for new types of gear. For iconic Warcraft character archetypes, we wanted to be sure that we could deliver on their fantasy with World of Warcraft’s classes. Blademasters just wouldn’t be Blademasters without abilities like Wind Walk and Mirror Image , but those abilities don’t fit in a warrior’s toolkit.

If they don’t Thematically fit for the Warrior’s Toolkit, then give Warriors something functionally the same under a different name. Blademasters are one of the most Iconic Warrior types in the setting. The most well known Warrior in the entire Lore who had an entire Expansion focused on him in a Blademaster.

Theme it as The Warrior being so skilled with a blade that those who are untrained think that the Warrior is so fast that they appear in two places at once, We had a Warrior Raid Boss perform Windwalk and Mirror Images in Warlords of Draenor, so apparently it was appropriate for them to have it then.

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65

I’m a big fan of what I’m seeing with Mountain Thane. I love the dwarf theming, and it seems like a perfect match for the upcoming Earthen allied race. Between this and the cosmetic additions from the Heroic/Epic Editions of The War Within, I’m one thrilled dwarf lover.

I do agree with others regarding glyphs to change the color of the lightning. More fun ability customization options is always good, and warrior is sorely lacking in that department.

66

Honestly, I am a bit disappointed.

As a Single-Minded Fury Warrior, I was excited for the Mountain Thane tree. Protection uses 1h weapons, so I thought maybe it would be a boon to us that play the “original” Fury Warrior.

According to Battle.Net itself, “…the Mountain King in WC3 had a Warhammer and a Handaxe…”. Those are 1h weapons. Not these Titan Grip weapons. I figured the Fury/Arms hero would be all about the 2h weapons and the Prot/Fury would be all about the 1h weapons. And maybe Prot/Arms would go with a dps sword/board type.

It would be great if Single-Minded Fury got a significant buff for picking Mountain Thane WITHOUT also buffing Titan’s Grip. Even Annihilator, which is way over on the SMF side of the tree is better for TG. It’s just ridiculous at this point.

I like the theme of the Storm Bolts, Thunderclaps, and Avatar thing, but even a Mountain Thane is a SMF Warrior, but they are just gonna ignore that part as usual.

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67

or at least let fury warriors transmog two handers as one handers - that would probably be the easiest way to due it tbh

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68

Really impressed with what I saw so far today for Mountain Thane.

Personally did not think I would be super interested in this one but I think the concept was nailed. Seems really cool and a bold thematic choice.

Can’t wait to play test and see more of these!

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70

Sounds like it should be the Arms/Prot tree instead of Fury/Prot. Fury doesn’t use TC or Sweeping Strikes, which were referenced by the dev. Maybe they’re trying to bring TC to all specs but I hope the Arms/Fury combo is more in line with current Fury feel.

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71

It’s a small sample size but it seems that most of the posters that think the theme is great are dwarves. Just saying.

72

I think it’s cool for a Thor/Raiden theme, that works with a lot of races that want a Lightning Warrior.

I love the Aesthetics of Enhancement Shaman but don’t like the RNG playstyle, I’m so far hyped to have this aesthetic for my Warrior. Might make an Orc.

73

It does seem like it, since it gives Rage with this path.

74

Does using thunder clap as fury mean that thunder clap will also be applying run as fury!? Cause that would be cool.

I really like the thunderclap replaces whirlwind idea.

Feedback on thunderstrike damage – can there be some covayence on what this means? Seems like it will be nature and physical damage and benefit from both. But tell us that in game please. You do not want new players being confused by this.

Also, is the intent that we will get all these talents at once or will we have a limited number of points to spend? And if so how many?

Hitting things with lighting is cool but it seems like there is a high degree of rng. I’d rather consistent small hits of lighting.

The talent that buffs rampage+shield slam – why not make lighting happen more often instead? Let the dps gain be the same as the rampage+shield slam buff but keep with the theme more. Or make those abilities do 10%/20% thunderstrike respectively.
Overall thunderclap is cool and randomly hitting things with lighting is also cool.

75

Does using thunder clap as fury mean that thunder clap will also be applying run as fury!? Cause that would be cool.

I really like the thunderclap replaces whirlwind idea.

Feedback on thunderstrike damage – can there be some covayence on what this means? Seems like it will be nature and physical damage and benefit from both. But tell us that in game please. You do not want new players being confused by this.

Also, is the intent that we will get all these talents at once or will we have a limited number of points to spend? And if so how many?

Hitting things with lighting is cool but it seems like there is a high degree of rng. I’d rather consistent small hits of lighting.

The talent that buffs rampage+shield slam – why not make lighting happen more often instead? Let the dps gain be the same as the rampage+shield slam buff but keep with the theme more. Or make those abilities do 10%/20% thunderstrike respectively.
Overall thunderclap is cool and randomly hitting things with lighting is also cool.

76

Am i the only one not liking this at all?

  1. Making fury use TC over WW feels bad mechanically and thematically even if it will do the same thing. TC has also felt more of tank aoe then a damaging ability for non-tanks. I could maybe see as Arms flavor because lightning damaging feels more on line with Arms than Fury. (More on this in point 2) Fury uses 2 massive weapons why would i stomp the ground to activate cleave? That’s why WW fits better mechanically and thematically swinging massive weapons around the battlefield is very intimidating, that’s what Fury wants to do.

  2. Lightning damage for Fury??? As Prot and Arms okay. They swing slower empowering their strikes with lightning is cool, Fury wants to swing big weapons faster…that doesn’t mean lightning. Swinging fast enough cutting through the air can ignite the air around the weapon creating a fire damage aspect. They have been teasing fire damage for Fury for awhile now, Odyn’s Fury is the main ability im talking about here, IT EVEN HAS A YELLOW/ORANGE SWING ARC THAT KINDA LOOKS LIKE FIRE, but no fire damage. I think Fire damage abilities fits better for Fury Warriors and lightning should stay with Prot and Arms.

  3. Most Fury players only have Odyn’s Fury because of DF season 3 tier set, they will swap back to boring Ravager after this season unless something makes Odyn’s Fury better.

I would say overall seems cool but I can’t get past the fact that unless I Rampage I don’t really get to swing massive weapons around anymore since I’m forced into TC over WW. I’m a sad Panda Warrior. :frowning:

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77

I only see bad ideas, poorly implemented, irrelevant utilities like “Storm Bolts: Storm Bolt also hits 1 additional nearby target, stunning them for 2 seconds.” or “Steadfast as the Peaks: Victory Rush increases your maximum health by 10% for 5 seconds.” they seem like random things generated by an “AI” without “I”. Nothing that solves the decades-old problem of the lack of utility that Warriors, regardless of their specialization, have in M+. Nothing that changes the rotation: replacing WW with Thenderclap certainly doesn’t change your gameplay, but then Thunderclap in a Fury tree? A monkey could have done better.

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78

Hi there! I play mostly arms and mostly care about M+, so my feedback will be coming from that point of view.

Thematically:
I think it’s cool! Although thunder clap has evolved into being more of an arms/prot ability, when trying to recreate the mountain king, it just makes sense to lean on that ability more, and that it be a dual wielding character. To that end I would even go further with the changes, and have it incentivize dual wielding as prot, replacing some of the defensives leaned on like shield block. Fury prot in classic was kind of cool! I think mountain thane should do something similar for prot in retail.

However, I am concerned in that the mountain king is also iconic for avatar, and this is leaning into that. For a lot of my feedback I’ll have to be reserved as I haven’t seen and can’t envision what slayer or colossus will look like, but I am concerned that multiple abilities that have become iconic for arms and prot are now being pulled into a fury-only spec. Similar to when bladestorm was in fury’s talents, it muddles the waters a bit and makes it harder for me to define my identity as an arms warrior.

Mechanically:
As far as how it is changing how damage is done, I don’t really have many notes. I only really play fury when arms isn’t viable in M+ (which hasn’t happened so far in DF), so it’s harder for me to envision how this changes up the rotation. But I think making thunderclap into a sort of replacement for whirlwind works well for fury.

My main concern is the AOE storm bolt talent. It seems a little underwhelming compared to utility that other specs have access to for dungeon runs, but if it is tuned properly (make it up to 5 targets, or increase stun duration to 4 secs on the 3 targets) then a whole new concern pops up. Am I going to have to play fury now in dungeons because the other specs won’t be getting the same kind of utility advantage?

This probably goes outside the bounds of feedback for the thane, but I am concerned that we’re going to get into another situation where I’m forced to swap to fury, or that DPS warrior will lack utility that other classes can bring, and therefore we will have a harder time finding groups for keys. I want to see the class get some real juice that’s going to make it more viable, especially with the recent nerf to rallying cry. Back in the DF beta heroic leap was going to have an optional talent making it into a short-range mass grip, and I was so sad to see it didn’t make it into the final game. I understand M+ isn’t the only version of the game that needs to be balanced for, but I am honestly getting tired of having my favorite class lacking utility to such a degree that I feel like I’m just waiting for tuning to randomly work out and catapult me into the meta (or simply being viable).

I think DPS warrior in particular needs love in the utility department and has for some time, so I’m looking forward to seeing what the slayer tree has to offer. As prot can’t touch it, this seems like the perfect opportunity to give arms and fury something big that people love to bring for dungeons. And by big, I’m thinking really big. Bloodlust, mass grip heroic leap, hugely empowered intimidating shout. Something like that.

If you’ve ready this far, thanks for taking the time. Really looking forward to war within (and having a blast with season of discovery for that matter), just want to see these trees be the best that they can be.

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79

Firstly, from a lore/theming perspective I think Mountain Thane theming is fine and there is plenty of lore to support mountainous thunder warriors in many/most races: Humans from Alterac, Kul Tirans from the peaks of Tiragarde, Pandaren from Kun-Lai, Stonetalon Tauren, Orcs from the Blackrock/Dragonmaw/Thunderlord clans, etc. My only note here is that it would be thematic if some of new damage sources also did Frost damage (the piecing cold of high mountain peaks) instead of all lightning/nature damage.

Now onto gameplay. These hero talents work exceptionally well for Prot and the weaving of these benefits between TClap and Shield Slam seems natural and intuitive. Lightning Strikes and Thorim’s Might buffing Revenge seems out-of-place, but it seems to be preventing shield slam from proc-ing off itself (which seems a bit clunky, but fine).

However, these talents have major implications (and downsides) for Fury. In AoE, Fury is going to be heavily incentivized into a Bloodthirst-centric build due to the synergy of Thunder Blast and Burst of Power (a stated goal was that Hero Talents shouldn’t “force” players into a particular build). Worse though, in pure-ST scenarios Fury will be heavily incentivized into a Raging Blow build to generate Lightning Strikes and will largely ignore most of the talents in this tree. I’d really like to see some revisions to the tree to improve the parity between RB and BT in all/most of these talents.

I’d also like to toss out some ideas for more interesting talents, particular for the choice nodes which are a bit lack-luster. In HotS, Muradin has a talent “Thunder Strike” which buffs the damage of Thunderclap when it hits exactly 1 target. Something in that vein, would really interesting and further shift the power from Whirlwind to TClap for Fury. Another ST damage idea would be to have Storm Bolt do a chunk of damage to stun immune enemies. Ideally, this wouldn’t be better than SB’s use as a long stun, but would give it a use in conditions where the stun is not useful.
Also, in WC3 the Mountain King’s Avatar was spell immune during the duration, I think it would be cool to see this reflected in this tree in some way. Maybe a cooldown reduction for Bitter Immunity similar to Valajar Training?

I’d also like to echo other’s sentiment that Storm Bolts has some weird issues in M+ (the best situation for that talent choice) and if the goal of the talent is to give warriors access to an AoE stun, then fixing the placement of Shockwave would be a much better solution.

Lastly, I think its worth pointing out that this hero tree is going to dictate a lot of talent choices for warriors. Steadfast… requires picking Impending Victory (in most practical applications), Storm Shield requires intervene, Valajar Training requires Ravenger, Avatar of the Storm requires Avatar, Storm Bolts requires Storm Bolt, the focus on Thunder Clap incentivizes away from Whirlwind talents (and Revenge to a lesser extent), as well as the Raging Blow/ Bloodthirst issue mentioned above. I wouldn’t say this is a huge issue except that the other 3 hero talent trees revealed so far do a noticeably better job.

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80

Feedback what? Fix prot/arm warrior in 10.2 first! Do what you are paid for!

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81

I have a question!

Looking at the mockup, I see that Lightning Strikes occur 50% more often when a warrior is in avatar mode. If I am specced with Berserker’s Torment, which grants 4s of avatar when I pop recklessness (and vice versa), “at reduced effectiveness”, does this “reduced effectiveness” also affect lightning strikes’s increased occurrence?

82

the meat of mountain thane looks cool, what I don’t care for is the name.

I don’t think any of the hero specs talents should blatantly pull from one race. An exception to this would be Sunfury, because beside that being the LAST name to a well known mage it is; of it self, ambiguous.