i understand that people dislike burst cause they feel like a fish out of water outside of cds. but believe me when i say that consistency specs bring nothing to the table.
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Not to sound like griping but only for comparison other classes such as evoker gave been noted to lack pressure outside of cds and so it gets buffed (only for comparison). Meanwhile when rogues are effective it gets touched many times until we become stun support.
Not quite sure sustained classes bring less as it is just one big go an entire match from demo / bm as an example and they can still hit pretty dang hard and continue to womp on some joker after which is cool.
Im more irritated that propaganda remains and is listened to after 20 years when people trinket saps or a 5 second blind in 2024. Each set of cc nerfs and crit damage nerfs and stamina changes messes rogues up the most as we operate in stuns and kidney shot is a measuring stick. You get peeled once during that or stars forbid someone uses a defense and your damage is over but rogue still gets griped about no matter what.
I hear you though manā¦just yep not trying to derail this thread.
Im still looking forward to trickster as it is a neat spin on things and offers ways to think about stuff and come whatever may, rogues will find away to adapt.
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Yeh that went away on purpose as it trivializes boss fights for sure, it was cool but def needed to go. Technically that still is around, just macabre + other stuff to get to 50% instead of that .
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People that have never played Cata Rogue are going to be shocked by how all three specs function so differently but at the core they are still all Rogues.
from this reply im assuming your talking about pvp correct? if so then i retract my statement. its not my place to weigh in. my statement was purely a pve one
Yes sir, I meant to clarify. Side note, I hope they do a big stat squish again instead of legion numbers. Hitting in the millions was silly.
You can stop wondering. At this point, itās beyond stupid and the devs just donāt get it.
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Actually, you can complain and should. A 5% damage buff sounds great until you realize that 5% is taken from something else.
Hypothetically speaking, letās say Blizzard wants rogues to top out at 200k dps throughput. Thatās all they are going to give us and thatās whatās we are balanced around. So, adding 10k dps throughout isnāt going to give us 210 dps. It means we start at 190k and add 10k ending up at 200k.
What this means is Blizzard removes 5% dps from other abilities and adds it back to Unseen Blades. Now, you have one more ability (Feint) to add to an already bloated rotation AND as others have stated, itās has to be crammed into a really short burst window.
I believe the first step Blizzard should make is to remove Shadow Dance from the class tree and put it back in the Subtlety tree. Then design the other specs accordingly.
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I donāt dislike burst. I dislike having to cram 14 abilities into a six second window while lining up 5 buffs to maximize the damage output or else my dps tanks. Thatās not fun to me.
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hawt yea i dont think like that so ty so yea the only thing i see thats anything is feint generating points now lol. and with assa being the sole advantage outside outlawl spammin between the eyes w their 500 secs of subter thats really all thats been benefited from it. not many do the cc chains that its ment for but idk all have step now, dance were all sub i personally love assa rn because feels like cata i can garrote out dance like its a game changer, love it
The feint interaction is bad, please donāt make another defensive into an offensive. We already have that issue with vanish. If you want to lean into the trickster theme, and encourage people to use killing spree, make the talent like this:
āUnseen Blade: Dispatch/Eviscerate apply a stack of Flawless Form, increasing the damage of your next Killing Spree/Secret Technique by X% per stack.ā
It would give outlaw another build to play, reason to use Killing Spree, help in decreasing defensive creep, and be some actual burst for us. Donāt play Sub, so their input would be appreciated, but it feels a lot more trickstery. Current build is as bad as Oracle, please donāt do this.
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Iāve been saying this ever since the talents came out in DF my dude. The talent prereqs make zero sense, itās as if they were designed and put together by someone whoās NEVER played a game with talent trees. Like why do I need recuperator to get acrobatic strikes lol what even is that direction? At least I can pick up Evasion to getā¦ master poisoner? Is evasion suppose to compliment or add onto what master poisoner does?
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Coming from a class fantasy perspective rather than power/mechanical:
I like the concept of a trickster, and I like the idea of a ācoup de grace,ā though I think more could be done to drive the thematic cohesion home and make it a home run. Because you are designing hero talents as an evergreen feature it is important to really nail the fantasy via the gameplay and not make compromises.
So I think the idea is that as trickster rogue you continually outplay your opponent, weakening them and getting the upper hand, leading to a coup de grace.
Unseen blade sounds fun. But the coup de grace seems pretty underwhelming as a payoff.
So to combine the idea of the coup de grace and the trickster more, we want to emphasize the feeling of gaining the upper hand against the target with coup de grace as a payoff. This means there is an inherent power dynamic between the rogue and the target.
But with flawless form you are thematically only trying to touch the rogue. It should not only buff the rogue, it should debuff the target as they have been severely weakened by the rogueās tricks.
So I think performing coup de grace should result in emphasizing the duality of this power dynamic. While the rogue gains movement speed, the target is crippled. While the rogue gains energy regeneration, the enemy is silenced. Etc.
Just giving a mastery buff is a waste. It is just a tiny percentage number and doesnāt alter the way the class plays to fully express the fantasy. We want to make it feel not like just more damage, but that the enemy is truly staggered, while the rogue is dancing circles around them. These effects combined will make the rogue really feel like a nimble trickster.
Iāll make another post for my second ideaā¦
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My second idea is based on the description of the trickster tree
slashes the fool with a blade they never saw coming. Coins are taken, leaving pockets lighter and egos bruised.
I think it would be entertaining if the trickster had hit effects that were literally gold coins splashing around, with a nice jingling sound. It would be entertaining for the whole group and differentiate them thematically and emphasize class fantasy, beyond being just āmore damage.ā
(Think the old ghostly strike but with coinsā¦hehe. It could actually give the rogue money similar to looting or the old pickpocket)
So when you hear the gold jingling, you know itās a trickster rogue. It would also sell the idea that their strikes are precise and āgolden.ā
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They did that with mug in ffxiv, was cool but would be a glyph if artists had down time and if they wanted to.
Gw stealing ability was cool too with a cool w animation but we shall see.
Hero trees were stated not to shift playstyles in their goals which I agree with. Ex: reading shaman talk about how they didnāt dig being heavily encouraged into a certain style (dunno what that was as i stab stuff not palpatine lightning bolt people a d shooty shoot magic)
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Ah right I forgot about that. Though personally I think it would still fit within the rogue theme.
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wouldnt say its makin it offensive, just havin a use for it outside of doin it runnin away
they botch this, sub needs like a shadow theme to it trickster? meh
ya they point gating good talents behind pve ones, classic
All in all, the whole hero tree feels dull. The capstone ability doesnāt feel like a final talent. Unless it comes with a new animation or set of animations for both specs?
For Outlaw you could have Coup de Grace perform a vicious Dispatch, followed up with a kick, and then Between the Eyes. Make it a FINISHING MOVE!
Every time I see Mastery mentioned in a talent tree, it makes me cringe. Maybe itās an old learned habit from when mastery first became a thing.
Now we have Feint being used to generate combo points and it grants enemies a short debuff, but still does no direct damage. As it is, the only time I touch feint is when theres AOE dmg constantly ticking.
canāt say im excited for this system, talent tree and class design is in shambles so they decide to add a spec to your spec. funā¦
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