Do YOU do that damage without using Kill Command? Nope. Therefore, it is damage attributed to the use of Kill Command.
“BUFFING Kill Command” doesn’t necessarily mean directly increasing the damage of KC. Anything that adds damage to an existing ability is a buff, regardless of what that damage is called in your logs. If it requires the use of that ability, then it buffs that ability.
The irony is this comment, when you are literally trying to limit what BUFFING means to fit your argument. lol
Read Vicious Hunt again.
Vicious Hunt: Kill Command prepares you to viciously attack in coordination with your pet, dealing additional physical damage with your next Kill Command
“dealing additional physical damage” is not “increasing the damage of your next Kill Command”. They even use the exact same modifier you’re misreading in this very tree.
Carve or Butchery increases the damage of your next Carve or Butchery by 25%
talk about splitting hairs lol. “buffing kill command doesn’t necessarily mean buffing kill command”.
It’s a separate damage instance. It has nothing to do with Kill Command’s damage. Can you not understand that?
Keep spinning. I understand exactly what you’re saying. I’m trying to tell you that it’s an incorrect definition of a buff. At this point, you’re either completely clueless or desperately trying to avoid admitting you’re wrong. You are trying to apply your own definition of a buff, rather than the generally accepted definition of a buff.
Let me ask you this… If Blizzard announced today that in the next reset, Kill Command would apply a heal over time to the hunter for 5% of their health over 5 sec. Would you consider that a buff? By your own definition, it doesn’t directly increase the damage of Kill Command. It applies a separate heal.
The vast majority of people playing this game would call that a buff, but apparently not you.
the irony once again lol
nobody would consider this a buff to kill command, they would consider it a buff to hunter’s survivability.
LOLOLOLOLOL!!! Okay. You are obviously delusional and this is going nowhere. Have fun on your crusade to bolster your own ego by attacking people’s subjective opinions.
for the future I really suggest you slow down and read people’s posts and tooltips before you go on an hour long rant
That’s some serious ignorance Nondriel
if people don’t want to read tooltips they should expect a discussion
Lemme guess, you also considered wildfire cluster as a sepparate ability and not part of wfb?
100% this. Look at Rider of the Apocalypse and then compare them to this garbage we are getting and I dare them to try and claim with a straight face that they are equal. Rider is very obviously a well thought out awesome theme made by someone who loves the idea and fantasy of the class - the Hunter stuff is clearly by somebody who has never played one, read through our talent tree and made some stuff up 30 mins before it was due based on what they read.
There is so much potential and all we are getting is “Kill command makes kill command do more damage” and “Reset Aimedshot redux redux redux” oh and “sort of slow 1 person for 2 steps sometimes” like what on earth is this nonsense?
DK’s get 4 horseman of the apocalypse with varying interactions and benefits and intertwined synergy and we get “Kill Command increases your next Kill command”, “Multishot increases your next multishot” and “Carve or Butchery increases your next Carve or Butchery”.
Take these trees, print them on to toilet paper, use them to wipe which is all they deserve and do better.
yes because WFC damage has nothing to do with WFB’s damage? it was tuned separately lol
the irony is if we got this tree this thread would be a mess of how Rider is just more of a burst profile that we don’t want and is tied to too much RNG that we have no control over
I think my favorite thing is how Survival’s version of Cull the Herd pretty much gives us the Kill Shot bonus from Coordinated Assault a second time, so we can be even more coordinated.
Also like that it really wants us to double up on CA and Spearhead, which is probably the most awkward pair of the bottom-of-tree skills.
Yes, because all passives are the same.
Pack Leader repeats the mistakes and ignores the mountains of feedback given from Dark Ranger Already. It misses thematically, adds no interesting gameplay, has extremely poorly tuned “choice” nodes where there is no conceivable way for the choice to ever be reasonable, one is so far ahead of the other. It speaks to a lack of ideas and lack of understanding how the spec’s function.
Mend Pet as a Heal over time, on the GCD. Feels awkward and clunky. Exhilaration being on the GCD already feels clunky. The Turtle and Survival of the Fittest aspects to this talent are good. You’ve correctly Identified that BM doesn’t scale at all with Leech due to pets and needs a source of passive healing, but the spec is already nearly GCD locked. Change Mend Pet as the trigger source to something like Beastial Wrath.
Scattered Prey is simply ludicrously worthless, I hope this is a placeholder. Multi shot does no damage as BM, it is a GCD tax to enabling beast-cleave. This choice node will simply never be picked. No amount of number tuning on this talent or on multishot itself will likely fix the problem, it needs a complete re-design. Which is good, because “increase multi shot damage by 25%” is boring and uninspired in the first place, you can do better.
Disengage giving a range increase is cool, but 5 yards is nothing. BM already has weird problem points of Kill Command having a longer range than Barbed Shot. MM is supposed to be the “high range” spec, not BM. Tireless Hunt is basically only useful in a “sylvanas chains” like situation where you are running for literally 30s+ which BM is already comfortable doing, but such a fight design is going to be hated by every other ranged spec in the game and I think we agree is a bad idea and should not be repeated. Which begs the question when do you forsee this ever being useful in PvE?
Fenzied Tear and Furious Assault give more Barbed shots and Kill Commands, to a spec that already doesn’t need more of those 2 things. Are they nice for dps? sure. Do they make the spec more engaging or interesting to play? Not even a little bit. We already BARELY cast Cobra shot, these talents mean you can effectively remove cobra shot from your keybinds. We are losing gameplay variety and decision making points for agency with these nodes, not gaining anything. We’ve spent 6+ nodes in this tree to say “your kill command and barbed shots do more damage”. Those nodes say that in more flowery ways, but thats what they do when you boil them down.
Beast of Opportunity is the only talent that I think fulfills the image of what people had in mind reading the name “Pack Leader”, Spawning more beasts is cool. Stampede is cool, it was a talent that nobody picked a single time in the entirety of Dragonflight. Why does a talent exist if people are never picking it, you never buff it over the duration of an entire expansion, and you make a hero talent tree called “Pack Leader” that still does nothing with it.
Give us more pets, give us more interesting gameplay patterns and mechanical minigames. Disengage could give our pets “Blink Strikes” for a duration. Aspect of the Cheetah could refresh Disengage’s cooldown. There’s lots of opportunity for cool ideas. I dont expect every single talent will be amazing. Making BM value crit is fine, making Kill Command more powerful is fine. But reading these nodes doesn’t make me excited. DK’s and Warlocks hero talents are fulfilling more of a “pack leader” fantasy than this hero talent tree. They got to have cool stuff that gave unique new effects from multiple units fighting alongside them in combat. Do that stuff.
The mountains of feedback in Dark Ranger are less active abilities and more passive modifiers. It seems like Pack Leader does that exactly?
“It doesn’t have problem A” doesn’t mean it’s free from having problems B-Z.
Correct, but I’m sure it’s hard getting actually diametrically opposed feedback and be expected to act on it
For the life of me I do not understand why they are so reluctant to just buff Multi so it doesn’t feel like a wasted GCD.
at this point the ability should just be beast cleave. multi-shot just isn’t fun to press
Pack Leader isn’t terrible, but seems rather bland when compared to some of the other Hero Talent Trees. Below are suggestions that I think would make the tree more appealing:
Prey on the Weak - Attacking with Vicious Hunt has a chance to apply A Murder of Crows for 6 seconds. This chance is greatly increased on targets below 40% health.
Mercy of the Wild - Vicious Hunt and Kill Shot deal 10% increased damage to targets with A Murder of Crows.
At first glance, Survival looks to gain much less from Pack Leader than BM. One way to solve this while also addressing a long-standing issue with Survival is by replacing Carve.
Since Carve is inferior to Butchery in every metric known to man, replace it with a more interesting alternative than a melee AoE attack to compete with Butchery, a melee AoE attack. I suggest the following:
Ferocious Companion - Kill Command strikes all enemies with your active damage over time effects within 8 yards of your pet. Choice node with Butchery.