Not to split hairs, but Pack Coordination isn’t white damage. Pet basic attacks are Bite/Claw/Smack. These use pet Focus and do extra damage if Focus is above 50.
I was going to add more to this comment, but you keep editing your post and removing/changing the things I was going to comment on. Perhaps writing and editing your comments in Notepad before posting them would help with the confusion.
Bite/Claw/Smack usually consume double Focus to deal double damage when over 50 Focus, yes, but do we know that is true of auto-strikes? If it doesn’t consume Focus, does it still get the benefit of consuming double Focus?
Moreover, if they do consume Focus, but merely ignore the ICD, that means getting fewer bites in over time, i.e., fewer CA procs for AoE.
And, above all, it just isn’t going to hit for much, period, coming from SV.
If it made it worthwhile to manually Bite/Smack/Claw, I’d feel differently, but… I don’t get the impression that will be the case here.
This is honestly the biggest problem.
What I want is something that feels cool. Feels impactful, visually exciting etc. Paladins raining endless hammers from the sky, warlocks calling in demon lords left and right. Hero trees should first and foremost be about making you look and feel awesome, and the numbers should be balanced after the fact.
We haven’t seen any of the visuals yet for the tree so it could still be that way
Historically, they’ve never been affected by haste. Unless this has changed recently. Granted I’ve been absent from retail for DF, but could this:
…be Brutal Companion?
When Barbed Shot causes Frenzy to stack up to 3, your pet will immediately use its special attack and deal 50% bonus damage.
I don’t know what abilities you used in your tests, nor what talents you were running with. Could be mistaken…
Sounds like a big pile of garbage for sv. KC is not our dps dealing skill, yet a big part of the tree buffs KC damage, coordinated assault is a ridiculously bad dps talent, but we will be forced into using it… And just like I feared, the tree adds more pets. We already have too much screen clutter in melee!
For BM it looks pretty cool though.
Well since it has synergy with BM and SV hunter and they both use kill command, there is not much you could have done combining these two specs to create something exceptionally unique, regardless how much the community is ambitious to create something.
I must have say finally there is something that reduces our AOE “spammer” cooldown.
As well giving survival more melee range is actually something that can make it more unique then any other spec in the game. I hope you extended that range by default even more, but not much more.
How this isn’t completely focused around just summoning pets and doing cool things with pets and buffing pets is WILD to me…
Diabolist Warlock does a pretty cool job of achieving the fantasy of “more demons” on paper but this is just oof. I’m a MM player and I’m still disappointed and mad for all the BM folks reading this garbage (same for how I felt about Dark Ranger being pretty trash)
Can hunters just… get a really good rework and get completely new hero trees? 2/3 being kinda bad is just awful especially when we’re all already playing a class that NEEDS to be tuned up for damage since we do very little otherwise.
EDIT: This hero tree at least looks mechanically okay to play. The Dark Ranger one is an AWFUL maintenance button, so props there I guess but this is insanely dull and doesn’t really hit even close to where it should.
Survival PvP main here, this is the most uninspired, lazy, boring garbage I have seen so far among the hero talents that have been released. Needs a complete redesign.
Where’s the pack to lead? there’s no pack?
I thought Pack Leader would be pet based and summoning more pets and be an animal friend lord lover of beasts and chuck birds and squirrels and boars at my enemies.
The word ‘Leader’ suggests some kind of ‘commanding’ which I was hoping for some group utility maybe. (like the leader of the pack buff used to be for druid i think it was?)
This is very ‘make the deadline’ development. This is ‘rush into the outbox no one likes SV anyway’ work. I SWEAR no one at blizzard actually plays hunter. I am convinced no one at Blizzard plays Hunter anymore than normal raid twice a tier on a BM alt.
The state of hunter toolkit in general is in shambles as it is (fix our general tree) and this is considered hero talents?
If this and Dark Ranger are the standard of development that hunter is going to get while other classes are getting inspired glorious passionate work on some hero talent trees from devs who seem to love the class they are working on. I will either need to reroll my main of 15 years or just quit wow.
go again angle
The Pack Leader Hero talent tree looks like a great start conceptually! However I do have a few points of interest I want to point out from survival’s perspective.
Cull the Herd: Kill Shot deals an additional 30% damage over 5 seconds and increases the bleed damage you and your pet deal to the target by 25%.
This talent is great however the duration is too short to get advantage of the bleed from the Coordinated Assault empowered kill shot effect (Bleeding Gash on details meters and logs). Extending the buff long enough to be able to take advantage of this would be helpful for the overall performance.
Den Recovery: Aspect of the Turtle , Survival of the Fittest, and Mend Pet heal the target for 20% of maximum health over 4 seconds. Duration increased by 1 second when healing a target under 50% maximum health.
Den Recovery seems overall lackluster. Much of the time you have to pre-defensive a mechanic which would essentially make at least a portion of the heal rendered useless. A simple alternative would be to make the heal an absorb for 20% of your max health above 50% Max HP and 25% below that threshold.
Frenzied Tear and Pack Coordination talents are a good start that provide good synergy to existing builds. My only other gripe would be to allow the capstone; Pack Assault to also function with spearhead since our builds vary depending on ST and AoE/M+ content and that addition would allow the talent tree to flourish in my opinion.
This is from Blizzard’s page about Hero talents. Their goal is for both Hero talents options to “similarly effective”, but I have yet to see a Hero tree that doesn’t heavily favor one spec over the other.
I’m getting the popcorn ready for beta, when they start to see this imbalance play out. I figure one of three thing will happen.
Pretty tired of BM talents / tier sets etc. basically being different ways to reduce the CD or reset Kill Command and Barbed Shot.
It looks like it will play perfectly fine its just a bit boring.
there is 1 single node on the tree that has anything to do with KC damage?
You mean three? Vicious Hunt, Frenzied Tear, and Pack Assault all increase damage from Kill Command.
No?
Vicious Hunt: Kill Command prepares you to viciously attack in coordination with your pet, dealing additional physical damage with your next Kill Command
This deals additional physical damage WITH your next KC coming from you, not your pet. Has nothing to do with KC’s damage.
Similarly to Pack Assault. Has nothing to do with KC’s damage.
Frenzied Tear is the single ability that has anything to do with KC’s damage and even then, resetting the CD of KC is just as good for SV as it is for BM.
LOL! Those are some mental gymnastics there.
All three talents increase the percentage of damage we will do when using Kill Command. That very much fits into Taigertraps comment. You want to split hairs and only include direct damage increase to the ability itself, despite other talents providing damage when using Kill Command. Is your entire goal here to nitpick people’s posts and tell them they’re wrong? You are one of the primary reasons Hunter threads devolved into arguments.
I don’t think you’re reading the ability at all. It explicitly says in the tool tip “YOU attack in coordination, dealing additional physical damage.” If it were to increase the damage of KC, it would say “Increase the damage of your next Kill Command.” or “Your PET deals increased damage with your next Kill Command.” You can read the Frenzied Tear’s tooltip, which explicitly references the ability doing damage based off of Kill Command’s damage.
It’s almost definitely going to be a separate instance of physical damage (like it says on the tooltip) so it can be independently tuned.
If someone is giving feedback based off of wrong information yes?
I don’t think you are understanding anything at all. If you use Kill Command and extra damage comes from that Kill Command, even if it’s not directly called Kill Command, that damage is still attributed to using Kill Command. That is three talents that are centered around USING Kill Command. If you want to argue that isn’t a “big part of the tree”, go ahead. However, what Taigertraps considers big and what you consider big is entirely subjective.
This isn’t a hard concept to understand. Your response really shines as an example of splitting hairs to avoid admitting you’re wrong.
It comes from YOU though, it’s not a percentile based off of Kill Command. It has nothing to do with Kill Command’s damage. It’s an extra source of damage when you use Kill Command.
and that person’s whole post was “the tree is centered around BUFFING Kill Command” so again, you should slow down and read things before you get angry
the irony here lol