Because it will always feel like a wasted GCD due to not being pet based / scaling with mastery / interracting with almost any of the talents.
And if overbuffed risks competing with KC/etc on aoe.
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Bro, all feedback is always going to have opposites. We get it, not everyone that plays the game is on the same page⌠news at 11. Please stop needlessly posting this every 3 posts.
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Perhaps choice nodes could be a good place to add some active/passive for everyoneâs taste?! 
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Iâm pointing it out because people keep bringing it up?
Pointing out everytime someone on the forums feedback differs from another user? Needlessly watering down the thread. You could just give your own feedback and leave it at that.
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Is the biggest piece of 
that I have ever seen
yes when someone says âthey should have listened to our feedbackâ when this hero tree is clearly made in response to âwe dont want active abilitiesâ.
You posted your feedback which was âlooks good from SV, will add more thoughts later.â Then proceeded to post in this thread 31 more times! All of which adding nothing and saying âThatâs not what pack leader means.â, âYour opinion is wrong.â, or âLOL get on the same page.â
Leave your feedback and improvements. So people want more buttons and also less buttons? Boom add in some choice nodes and gg.
But, if all you want to do is criticize others feedback and point out when people donât agree⌠the other forums need you man.
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Heaven forbid people offer feedback about something you donât agree with 
We have people ITT saying that Mend Pet is an awkward self heal when it doesnât even heal the hunter. you think thatâs appropriate feedback to give?
Literally said to leave your feedback⌠I donât even?? But leave your feedback about the tree (hopefully more than just âlooks good.â 
You can leave out your feedback on other peoples feedback, put that in your blog.
With the mend pet talent its confusing wording (I know not for someone like you butâŚ) Turtle and Survival of the fittest heal the target⌠but they have no target and are only always on self, so we can assume the heal is on the hunter. Now I read the mend pet ability as the extra heal would go on the pet, however I can see where people would think it would go on the hunter themselves. Just needs clarification. But asking questions like that is too hard and Iâll just re post the definition of pack leader or something idk.
And Iâm sure youâll reply many more times (hopefully that poor Blizz intern that has to take notes on this feedback can just edit out all your responses) but, as for me. Iâm not going to add anymore frivolous posts to this already saturated thread.
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Iâm going to be really harsh here because youâve been spitting in the face of hunter players for years at this point: replace whoever did the hunter trees in Beta and presumably did this tree with someone who knows what theyâre doing.
The base hunter specs are already bad enough; these hero talents arenât helping much. So far, I like that youâve bringing back black arrow, and thatâs it. Everything else is lame. MAJOR work needs to be done on the base class and specs.
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Den Recovery has a confusing description. It says âheal the targetâ but none of the abilities listed are targeted. People are assuming this means Mend Pet will gain a self heal component, even though that seems unlikely. That and the fact that an extra 20% heal on pets is virtually useless.
But hey, letâs belittle people for making this honest assumption, right?
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I donât think anyone was being belittled, just that people are giving feedback based on that assumption instead of asking for clarity. 
Not to mention, most people would see a targeted 20% max heal HoT with a 10 second cooldown would be tremendously broken on a player
This was always going to fail thematically in some peoples eyes. Everyone is going to have some sort of pack size in their mind and put that on this tree. Then get mad when it doesnât do that. The literal minimum size for a pack is 2. But if you imagine like a hoard of pets as a pack, then yea, this is a major let down.
Think Blizzardâs goal was to have a pack the size of 2-4 and become a master over them and instructing them to have devastating and precise blows on the enemy. If this wasnât what you pictured, then I feel for ya.
Tree overall will probably perform fine. It is pretty boring though compared to some of the other trees gameplay wise.
Realistically I bet if we called this Hero Talent Tree Beast Master, and called the Beast Master Spec Pack Leader instead. It would solve 90% of this pointless arguing over a despite naming conventions terrible and boring hero tree.
The issues I see are mainly
- that it completely lacks any thematic design, which given the MASSIVE emphasis on this with âDark Rangerâ seems almost absurd from the start.
- it completely lacks sizzle. Whereâs the part that makes folks go âoooohâ, like a lot of other hero spec trees have?
- It doesnât even seem to do the job itâs supposed to. It feels more like an extra row or two of talents than âHeroâ talents in their own two-class tree.
Itâs sad that some classes seem to have developer(s) that actually care about the class they work on, and try to inspire players with the choices they make, but other classes just feel like they got rushed to finish by whichever intern was available that day.
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It seems to have been that, yep. Forgot I had swapped off the usual meta build when playing around in lower keys before swapping briefly to test. Hardly ever BM these days.
Distinguishing between giving additional and separate flat AP on a damage event and increasing the value of that damage event itself is⌠hardly mental gymnastics.
The second would hugely favor BM to the point of becoming a heavy balancing issue.
Itâs KC contribution, yes, but it doesnât scale with KCâs damage. Thatâs an important distinction.
Thatâs splitting hairs over what an already clearly established and useful distinction. There was no claim to the contrary; none among âyouâ, âdoâ, or âitâ are separate abilities with which to confuse attribution.
If it doesnât scale with any effects affecting WFB beyond its cast-frequency, treating it as separate is⌠pretty darn sensible.
Consider, how much damage does Serpent Sting do? 152% AP? 213% AP because of Ranger? 229%|244% because of Ranger + Serrated Shots (1/2)? 436%|451% AP because of Ranger + Serrated + Injectors?
- Yet, if Injectors is truly Serpent Stingâs damage, Serpent Stingâs contribution could reach up to 647% AP (with the target under 30% HP) because the majority of its damage (the 207% from Injectors, as opposed to the 152% base) would then scale with Ranger and Serrated for up to a whopping 90% damage bonus.
186% AP as magic damage is not a negligible difference. That mere difference in what talents affect that damage is more than 1.5 Mongoose Bites. At no additional Focus cost.
Similarly, whether the damage scales with Kill Command means that it may or may not scale with Mastery, atop up to a 98% damage modifier between constant pet damage and Kill Command damage buffs, Bloodshed, and Wild Instincts.
I.e., if it were actually Kill Command damage, it could easily have some 250% the contribution for BM.
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Thatâs precisely what WFC did. Whenever you used WFB, it would separately drop 3 mini bombs, each dealing 33% Attack Power. The WFC damage is independent of WFB damage and did not scale off of any passives that buffed WFBâs damage.
Really uninspired tree. Doesnât feel very thematic. Iâm fine with it being all passives (especially because a lot of BM players seem to be very averse to getting extra buttons) but the passives should at least feel inspired. Fits survivalâs fantasy better than it does BM but it still doesnât really feel great. Thereâs nothing particularly flashy or fun looking here and nothing that really indicates âpack leadingâ aside from one ability. Summoning an extra stable pet with Beast of Opportunity is a start but itâs disappointing that this is the only thing in the tree that brings to mind a âpackâ.
I would love to see them play into the fantasy a bit more with leading a pack of animals in combat. Some people in this thread have suggested the classic Stampede cooldown being added here and honestly that would be pretty cool too although I would be fine if it was a passive tree so long as it actually fit the âanimal packâ fantasy.
Tree is pretty disappointing overall. I donât think itâs necessarily the worst of the trees released but it is one of the more boring ones. I think this is a step down from the dark ranger tree and definitely far below some of the better trees revealed alongside this one. Hoping this tree gets reworked a bit to fit the pack leading fantasy better and hoping the Sentinel tree doesnât disappoint as much.
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Given that theyâve included Multi-Shot damage effects multipliers into both BM hero talent trees, I would read between the lines and say that theyâre most likely going to do a damage buff on Multi-Shot (and quite likely Kill Shot).
In Kill Shotâs case, a baseline damage buff for BM probably gets it back in the rotation & adds interest.
In Multi-Shotâs case, is a damage buff actually enough to make you care? We already cast it for Beast Cleave. Itâs in the rotation. So what effect would a hypothetical baseline Multi-Shot damage boost result in?
If the damage numbers on Multi-Shot are boosted high enough then we just replace Beast Cleaveâd Kill Command with Multi-Shot, and I doubt they want that.
If the numbers are kept more moderate, then we continue to prio Kill Command & still just use Multi-Shot to trigger beast cleave, but now the Multi-Shot does marginally more damage than a wet noodle.
So even if they boost base Multi-Shot damage, without changes to what it does there still isnât any interesting additional gameplay.
Hence boosting Multi-Shot damage would still not make those hero nodes interesting or satisfying. The nodes need to do something beyond âextra Multi-Shot damageâ, no matter how much damage Multi-Shot does baseline.
Edit: I would add the one use case for raw Multi-Shot is if theyâre on a choice node, Multi-Shot is buffed, and the other node demands skillful use⌠at that point they become the simple mode option. However on the Pack Leader tree the other choice node also makes the rotation easier & requires no changed technique, and on the Dark Ranger node itâs a non-choice node flat shadow damage effect thatâs restricted enough to limit any gameplay opportunities.
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