I mean yes, cuz it also says leader not breeder, so you would expect it to improve the existing pack, not spawn new members of it.
1 Like
Okay. Iâll let Azortharion know that heâs clueless. He must be slipping. /s
Thinking it will be mostly just icons over character heads. Most expressive talent will be Beast of Opportunity as it summons a beast.
Theyâre safe talents that buff Survival and Beast Mastery abilities while not forcing them to change much of their rotation.
He has other reasons for saying the Crit will be preferable on the whole. Iâm just pointing out that gaining free crit chance does not âby sim or historyâ increase the value of Crit. When getting procs from crits, free crit chance thereby increases the value of Haste.
With more Crit, youâre only getting that much more value out of what youâve geared for. Youâre more Haste, youâre getting more crits over time out of your gear-based Crit and the free Crits, both.
Hell, it doesnât take much Haste to guarantee 3 basic attacks per 6s to ensure the buff never falls off, even without Barbed Arrow. Howl of the Pack will almost certainly be passive, in effect, rather than having any influence on our Barbed Arrow timing.
- The interactions will probably instead be with, say, Brutal Companion and Spearhead, if anything.
Hi hi, Iâm an SV main (have been since it became melee).
Iâm pretty confused by this talent tree.
Here are the biggest issues, IMO:
There is a big emphasis on KC, KC isnât a strong portion of our damage and it has zero AoE application.
Why is there a random Kill Shot talent? Is it just because of the CA talent?
I think itâs a strong talent, but thatâs it for Kill ShotâŚno other synergies in the tree.
Why is there a random Bomb talent? There are no other bomb/butchery (carve WHO?) talents in this tree.
Why is this so stale? It feels like this tree is lacking so serious spice.
For SV your pet is simply a tool to regen focus.
Why not have hunter abilities empower your pet? (Iâm not talking about auto attacks)
Are you afraid to add more Kill Shot synergies because they already exist in Dark Ranger?
If so, that screws over SV pretty hard.
Why not put more emphasis on bleeds?
Maybe add big ones that your pet can apply, after using a big CD like CA
After CA charges you and your pet to the target, why not have it apply a big bleed?
Maybe that bleed could be spread with Butchery or something?
What happened to Serpent Sting stuff?
That was a core part of SV and now that itâs in the general tree is has been completely forgotten.
Look I love SV and I want it to be the best and most flavorful it can be.
I donât want to insult the people who came up with this tree, and credit where credit is due⌠THANK YOU for not adding a KC reset mechanic here.
Please make this tree more exciting.
Thereâs no reason things focused are your animal companion should be this bland.
Is the Basic Attack from Pack Coordination free for the pet?
They asked for our feedback and thatâs all you done. Nothing wrong with having questions and asking them now before everything is cemented.
2 Likes
Survival currently has up to 5 bleeds: Steel Trap, Master Marksman, Kill Shot (Bleeding Gash)/Spearhead, Internal Bleeding (blue bomb), and Bloodseeker (Kill Command Dot). This talent makes 6.
Why not have hunter abilities empower your pet? (Iâm not talking about auto attacks)
Spearhead and Coordinated Assault both do this already. The tree also does it with Pack Coordination and Pack Assault.
Why not put more emphasis on bleeds?
Maybe add big ones that your pet can apply, after using a big CD like CA
After CA charges you and your pet to the target, why not have it apply a big bleed?
Maybe that bleed could be spread with Butchery or something?
Spearhead is a bleed that your pet applies, doing exactly what you described. You can already spread a bleed through blue bombs with Butchery. You gain increased attack speed from bleeds through Bloodseeker already. Coordinated Assault applies bleeds to 1 target, up to 4 targets with Birds of Prey.
5 Likes
Iâm not even sure what youâre trying to say, so Iâm just going to expand on my thinking.
- Howl of the Pack stacks up to 3 times, but only lasts for 6 seconds.
- Pet Basic Attacks have a 3 sec cooldown.
- Pack Coordination gives one more Basic Attack for every Barbed Shot after Vicious Hunt.
- Wild Attacks makes every third Basic Attack a guaranteed crit, and does extra damage based on crit chance.
- Brutal Companion triggers a Basic Attack every time Frenzy stacks to 3.
A bit of math for how many basic attacks you can get out in a 6 sec period should be a bit over 4. With every third Basic Attack a guaranteed crit, keeping the buff up isnât difficult.
The stacks are 5% crit damage, not crit chance. That is 15% additional crit damage at 3 stacks. Stacking as much crit as possible is going to quickly outpace additional crits by haste alone. (Edit: Iâm guessing this is where I lost you. If this was crit chance, then it would make Crit as a stat less valuable. Iâm assuming you may have misread it as crit chance.)
This is all just my Notepad math. If you have different numbers, Iâm all ears.
2 Likes
Other than Master Marksman, Bloodshed, and Barbed Shot is there other bleeds for BM?
Theme wise it not what was expected the pack leader doesnât really have anything to do with a pack. The talents also donât really bring anything special especially for BM.
I think the right side of tree however is very nice for survival hunters as it helps significantly with focus by adding a passive way to reset the cooldown kill command and the occasional free mongoose bite and should be a idea that stays however the rest of the tree is kinda bland and while I also like cull the herd for survival its mostly because it simply add much more damage to the already strong kill shot for survival.
The Tree should be reworked for BMâs sake because right now its sucks for them which I think it should personally cater the most to BM considering the whole Pack leader tag because right now Dark ranger isnât that good for BM so it would be really sad if Pack Leader also isnât that great for BM
6 Likes
Tree is fine for BM except for the +multi shot damage talent node.
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Which no one in their right mind would ever take over increased Beast Cleave duration anyway.
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Could leech also apply to BM too? Most of the staying a live through dots could be fix with a simple change to how leech works.
6 Likes
No, I didnât lose that part. But, unless Details is bugging out on me repeatedly, Basic Attacks are Haste-affected, which means those auto-crits are going to scale with Haste in themselves even while Barbed Shot (for the auto-Claw) scales with Crit*Haste (via auto-attack crits) and Haste directly. That whole loop is more affected by Haste than Crit.
Note also that MMâs getting bonus crit damage still hasnât pushed it to necessarily prioritize Crit. SV does so âthis tier onlyâ (and only after Haste thresholds) only because its Crit-proc interactions affected by current Tier are not directly, in turn, affected by Haste (and so little of our damage comes from MB as to make Sweeping Spear worth less than Sharpened).
Yes, it could push it slightly over the edge, but only through certain synergies. Else MM would have long since swapped over. The broad sleight of the new effects increases the value of Haste slightly more than it does Crit.
Pretty sure Basic attacks are not affected by Haste, but to double check I went to the target dummies. Setting only my pet on the dummy and no other attacks, I did three 1 min parses. All three parses had exactly 20 Claws in Details, and I have 25.45% Haste. That is one Basic attack every 3 sec, with no variance.
Another thing to keep in mind regarding crit is how Wild Attacks not only makes every third Basic attack a crit, it also increases the damage based on crit chance. It doesnât say how much it increases it, but Iâm going to guess itâs just 1:1 to crit chance. This seems to be in addition to the 15% extra crit damage from Howl of the Pack.
Azortharion also posted a video talking about why crit is going to become the focus.
youtube .com/watch?v=aks2p_IsZ6Y
Damn, I wonder how Iâm getting extra Bites, thenâŚ
Well, in that case, yep⌠Crit ftw, I guess.
Man honestly the only feedback I can think of is Iâm super excited that a large selling point of a monetary investment from me will involve my excitement over playing the new Hero talents specifically Pack Master. I canât wait to track my petâs basic attacks (which account for an average of 2% of total damage) so I can Kill Command Slightly better (Roughly 8.5% of total damage) especially when Iâm playing Survival Hunter. This will defiantly be worth my money and justify a monthly subscription that can pay the intern who designed these talents to keep pumping out bangers like this one. Oh boy oh boy I canât wait to sink my Clawâs, Biteâs, and Smackâs into this one what a doozy.
6 Likes
Honestly, the hero talents are supposed to be adding on to class fantasy and give us the feel for something exciting and new that doesnât exist with the current play style of the class. I was so excited for Pack Leader, only to read the talents and be extremely underwhelmed and bored that its all just passive boosts and doesnât feel alive or exciting in the least. Holy and Prot paladins get to summon new shields and weapons of light but Pack Leaders get passive boosts to what they already got⌠very boring and very lacking of any class fantasy. This whole tree needs to get looked at again and just redesigned with more imagination and spirit.
8 Likes
Pack Coordination and Furious Assault both affect the skill youâd have used anyways, your filler, RS/MB. Nor is there any way to significantly waste either mechanic outside of massively stacked multiplicities.
Theyâre something, I suppose, but neither new nor remotely significant.
A âmisuseâ of Furious Assault would be to start your farming stacks with fewer than some multiple of 6s left by the time you reach 5 stacks of MB, shifting 1 free MB from the tail of one MF window to the beginning of another, for all of⌠9% MB damage (2 MF stacks more, for a total of 30% bonus, from that 30% bonus), or 13.4% AP. At most ~13.4% AP per 15 seconds is your reward for perfectly managing that mechanic.
- Tip of the Spear can increase the difference, but only in the same way youâd already hold for 5 stacks before refilling Focus back when Alpha Predator was taken or when you having a Pheromone Bomb at the ready, as to get an extra 75% value out of TotSâs bonus. And, moreoverâŚ
Thatâs less of a difference than what we get from Tip of the Spearâs effects on optimal times to start MB windows if/when given enough control over our Focus generation for it to be even remotely worth thinking preemptively about beyond the basics. Which means what all considerations FA could ask of us⌠we were already doing (and are likely to fall beneath the value of simply using our CDs / following our out-of-window priorities).
Meanwhile, in ST, Pack Coordination is just bonus pet white damage on our RS/MB. There, weâre going to be hitting at least 1 RS/MB per 6s regardless. At best, it provides a bit of conflict with Fury of the Eagle and Covering Fire (since itâd leave little to no room for popping Poison Injectors, or therefore RS/MB per 6s).
Anywho, to summarize my thoughts on the tree succinctly: Pack Leader feels like a pretty decent tier set with a couple mediocre (at best) conduits. It does not feel remotely heroic or exciting.