it clearly reads you and you are too stubborn to admit you’re wrong lol. you attack with your pet, which is the entire premise of the tree. coordinated attacks.
i like how you completely ignored the rest of my post. why do you think kill command specifically highlights your pet dealing the damage? why do you think vicious hunt highlights you doing the damage?
why do you think scattered prey isn’t worded the same way?
Pot, meet kettle.
It literally reads you and your pet, and if you can not even admit what the tooltip literally says, despite you quoting it several times, then we’ve run into a brick wall.
Not everything needs to be worded the same. Again, it’s called flavor text.
We’ve lost sight of the original point why we’re having this conversation to begin with.
You made the following statement:
“there is 1 single node on the tree that has anything to do with KC damage?”
So lets pretend you’re right. This spell isn’t related to Kill Command damage literally as in will appear as Kill Command in logs (it will). You still think this spell has nothing to do with Kill Command even though it says “your next kill command”? lmao.
it’s a separate damage event. that’s been my point the entire time. bloodseeker doesn’t scale with kill command damage. VH won’t scale with kill command damage. please try not to take everything so personally
so lets see my argument for it being a separate damage event are the wording, the consistency of the wording, and several other tooltips with similar wording, and a tooltip on this very tree that is worded the way you think VH is worded
what are you basing your argument off of? being contrary?
the brick wall was here when you showed up and dug your head in the sand. the tooltip states YOU attack WITH Your pet. YOU are the one attacking, you are the damage event with VH.
The main issue with the Pack Leader tree is that a large percentage of the community do not know how Survival functions and do not wish to move past any preconceived notion of what the spec is, or what a Hunter should be.
This is not a “BM-focused” tree, it is a shared tree, and Kill Command fills different roles for both specs. For Survival, KC has a unique position in the flow of the spec as it is both a resource generator as well as a core mechanical element. Survival is a resource management spec, where hitting KC more allows you to Mongoose bite more, or Carve more to get CDR for your bombs. Kill Command makes the spec work, and anything that allows you to KC more while also buffing the frequency of those KC-enabled interactions is a really good thing.
People seem to be stuck on the name, and what they assumed the spec would do based on that, and that was a mistake. We don’t know what Sentinel will do for Survival, and I am very excited and also just a bit anxious to see what how it works with the kit, but as a Survival Hunter main, and as someone who greatly dislikes the current version of Coordinated Assault and the Basic Attack mechanic, I can tell you that I am happier with this tree than I expected to be. I like how it enhances our spec’s interactions while supplementing some of the problematic elements in the process. We could have done a lot worse for a first draft, and I hope that Blizzard takes into consideration some of the thoughtful feedback that the Hunter community provides them with.
It’s text written in a tooltip. If anything, we know that such text should not be taken in the literal sense. If it’s even slightly vague in nature, it can mean one of many things.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that it can’t be done the way you say, just that it’s fairly unlikely. We don’t know for sure how they’ll handle the actual implementation at this point. Either way, it’s much more likely that it’ll just be a flat damage increase to Kill Command, or a bonus proc with a damage event that is the same for both specs, with no animation, and most likely no interactions with anything else in the specs.
Either way, there’s no point to taking the words in a tooltip flavor text literally. It’s better to wait and see what the implementation is like.
this is what I am saying it is. a bonus damage event on the next kill command. the important distinction here is that it is a separate damage event, that does not scale with KC damage 
Every single hunter feedback is like this. Like 1 - 2 people posting 30%-40% of the posts arguing with others.
I think it’s a necessary evil as unfortunately the hunter threads seem to see a lot of people spreading misinformation and then double down when corrected
if it maeks u feel bettur the dks r fightn ovur the name of there riders spec n theme lol
devs know its wrong. They just want feedback not back and forth arguing. Devs hardly ever look at solutions people post, they only look at what people hate about something not the solutions those people give
It’s additional personal damage that does not scale with KC’s damage dealt the next time you use KC.
And said damage does not scale with Barbed Shot, because it’s a separate damage event.
That would, unless a separate damage event, scale with Barbed Shot.
But, again…
…implies that you deal a separate damage event, which would not scale with Kill Command’s damage.
Then I’d suggest you read the Dark Ranger thread.
Yet we have seen tooltips with similar wording or the same pattern of wording that have consistent implementations from which we can make an educated guess on how this wording would be implemented.
Which is also fair, since there is plenty of reason to think of that spec as more of a Rider Rando-Summoner than being a Rider of the Apocalypse oneself.
Just as this spec arguably feels more like a Paired Predator than a Pack Leader.
You need to define your use of the word terrible. Because that could be referring to gameplay, theme, or any number of things.
So if you use kill command as survival at range, then use kill command again to proc this new instance of damage coming from you, how does that animate/ apply? A mini offhand crossbow type attack?
We need more information on this because depending on the animations for the procs in this tree it could be at least visually stimulating.
Agreed. Though my guess for now would indeed be the typical mini crossbow.
Anywho, here’s a slight retweak of the original talents in the interest of making us more of a Pack Leader, in this case through…
…both with the purpose of making the Pack Leader feel more like they are leading a pack.
Edit: Lost post progress due to forums bring weird. Very WIP, especially with half of said progress having been lost.
Deep Affinity – The cooldowns of your Aspect abilities are reduced through certain related actions:
- Aspect of the Cheetah – Recharge rate is quickened by 50% your bonus movement speed, to a maximum of 30|50%.
- Aspect of the Turtle – Cooldown reduced by up to 5|10 seconds at a time when reducing or nullifying would-be damage taken, based on the amount reduced or nullified.
- Aspect of the Lynx – Recharge rate also increased by up to 100%|200%, proportionately to the number of targets who do not have vision of you, even if you are still engaged in combat.
- Aspect of the Eagle – Cooldown reduced by up to 3|8 seconds at a time when making a ranged attack, based on relative damage dealt. (Read: Based on nominal %AP damage.)
Call to the Hunt
Horn of the Hunt cooldown reduced to 2 minutes, but it now initially instead temporarily summons 1 to 2 more of your pets for between 20 and 10 seconds. These temporary pets mimic the commands of your non-temporary pets. While Horn of the Hunt is on cooldown, it may be used a second time to trigger its original effect, granting you and your allies 30% Haste for 30 seconds, not repeatable more often than every 10 minutes.
Pack Coordination
Using Kill Command instructs your pet to strike with their basic attack alongside your next Barbed Shot (Beast Mastery), Raptor Strike, or Mongoose Bite (Survival).
Howl of the Pack
Your pet’s Basic Attack critical strikes increase your critical strike damage by 12% for 8 seconds. Multiple applications may exist simultaneously.
Wild Attacks
Every third pet Basic Attack is a guaranteed critical strike, with damage further increased by critical strike chance.
Den Recovery
You stagger up to 30% of incoming damage taken to instead be taken over 6 seconds and receive up to 30% additional healing based on your portion of missing health. Additionally, you heal for 1% of your health per second for each second since you’ve taken damage, to a maximum of 5% per second. Using a healing or defensive ability on yourself immediately grants you the full benefit of the above effect for a minimum of 4 seconds.
Tireless Hunt or Cornered Prey
Tireless Hunt – Aspect of the Cheetah’s initial and later durations last up to 300% longer based on your direction of movement. The straighter you run, the longer it lasts. Aspect of the Cheetah movement speed bonuses also increased by 10%.
- This should be significantly more thematic still without being overpowered.
- I’m assuming AotC drops flag. If that’s a random and errant assumption, correct me.
Cornered Prey – Disengage increases the range of all your attacks by 8 yards for 5 seconds. Additionally, being reduced to below 40% health immediately grants an extra, temporary charge of Disengage usable within the next 5 seconds. This latter effect can only occur once per 40 seconds.
Frenzied Tear
Your pet’s Basic Attack has a 20% chance to grant an additional, temporary charge of Kill Command and cause Kill Command to strike a second time [BM: for free] for 30% of normal damage [and 100% of its Focus generation]. [Effects which trigger from reset Kill Commands also trigger from these bonus Kill Command attacks.]
Prey Drive or Herd-breaker
Prey Drive – Kill Command increases the duration of Beast Cleave by 1 second (Beast Mastery) and grants 3% Haste per Kill Command dealt during Beast Cleave, to a maximum of 12%. Wildfire Bomb charges your Carve by 40% and causes your next Carve and Raptor Strike each to incur 33% less of the global cooldown (Survival).
- Sort of a reverse Thrill (KCs for Haste instead of BSs for Crit) for BM, and just a bit more GCD space for SV atop what amounts to ~2 seconds of charge for Carve/Butchery.
Herd-breaker – Multi-shot increases the damage of your next Cobra Shot against each target by 20% of your pet’s done during that application of Beast Cleave. Carve causes your pet’s next basic attack to strike all nearby enemies and increases the damage of your next Raptor Strike (Mongoose Bite) by 40% of its damage dealt (Survival).
- No, this bonus damage would not scale with Mongoose Fury.
Cull the Herd
Kill Shot deals an additional 30% damage over 5 seconds and increases the bleed damage you and your pet deal to the target by 25%.
Furious Assault or Beast of Opportunity
Furious Assault – Consuming Frenzied Tear has a 50% chance to reset the cooldown of Barbed Shot and deal 30% additional damage. (Beast Mastery) Consuming Frenzied Tear has a 50% chance to make your next Raptor Strike or Mongoose Bite free and deal 30% additional damage. (Survival)
- This one seemed fine.
Beast of Opportunity – Your first attack and all attacks for up to 5 seconds after are guaranteed to critically strike against enemies you have not yet attacked, to a maximum of (300% of Attack Power) bonus damage thereby dealt. Enemies that drop below 35% health reset this effect, making themselves again vulnerable to Beast of Opportunity.
Additionally, afflicting an enemy with a critical strike has a moderate chance, and with stun, snare a high chance, to summon an additional beast to attack instantly and apply a further status effect.
- This temporary beast is not an actual unit, but rather an elaborate projectile effect. For those who prefer less randomness in their rotation, this can act as a decent bursty option. May be nerfed in PvP, though.
Beast Among Us
Replaces your Aspect of the Cheetah, Turtle, Lynx, and Eagle abilities with Summon Cheetah, Tortoise, Lynx, and Eagle, instead summoning a creature who fights alongside you and emanates part of the effect you receive to your allies near it, you, and your pet as well.
- This provides some significant and thematic utility and a bit of extra fluff damage.
Additionally, while under the effect of Horn of the Hunt, 5% of your pet’s damage dealt is dealt again to your target and enemies nearby atop to your next attack and 5% of your damage dealt is dealt again atop your pet’s next attack. Bonus damage split when applied through multi-target attacks.
- This does not scale with skill-specific damage bonuses, nor those unique to only you or only your pet. This part, too, is pretty straightforward, but offers a nice bit of focus damage.
plz no more mini crossbow
watch them change it to a random animal attacking on next kill command and they’ll be like “guys heres your pack”
Yeah there should be more unique beasts that are summoned by this tree. Mythical beasts that you cant normally tame. One for each family.
again thats bm oriented, not surv. for a tree shared by surv and bm its ideal for it not to benefit one spec over the other
not to mention if the tree were to have random pet summons…is that fun? I thought people hated this because it was so passive?
Imagine if they renamed this to Wild Spirits and you randomly summon different loa animals to help your team, return Night Fae ability and with it you summon the different animals
If it makes you feel any better, MOST of the class forums are like this, and a few are the same 2-5 people posting in most of the forums talking to themselves and their own alts.