Same for sure. That’s something I’d love to see above all else honestly. A currency from completing the keys would be a good way to add extra incentive to complete keys, and then you can use that currency to reroll the key or maybe even upgrade it?
It just sucks to have to do a 14 of a key I don’t want just to try to get back to 15 or 16 after some one leaves. The dungeons themselves are amazing, its just the keystone system I have troubles with.
The dungeons I would like to touch on are Kings Rest, Shrine of the Storm, and Waycrest Manor. The affixes I think need touched up still is Sanguine, Teeming *specifically with fortified, and explosive.
Personally I think the amount of kicks required for Shrine of the Storm is significantly too high. It basically pigeon holes certain comps on higher keys or else it isnt completable. The final bosses hp is also a bit high, but thats doable if the kick requirement was also pretty strained. I think a change to make the bosses HP lower, and kicks lasting for longer on the adds on the final boss and on the 2nd boss it would be a significantly less painful dungeon. Its a cool dungeon by design, but in practice it feels like pulling teeth.
I think the percentage required on Waycrest Manor is about 5% too high. You basically always have to go out of your way to pull extra to get proper percentage, which seems weird compared to every other dungeon. Also sanguine on this dungeon in particular is a nightmare.
Kings Rest also feels like it just needs a longer timer. No matter how quick you go on that dungeon it just always feels extremely close due to the RP, long boss fights, long trash fights, and sheer running in that dungeon. Either HP needs to go down (im fine with their damage staying super high), or RP times need shortened in some way.
My only complaint with affixes as a whole is explosive still seems way harder than other affixes, and teeming on weeks with fortified is pretty awful. This makes the teeming explosive fortified week basically a vacation from wow for a whole week for anyone who likes to try and push keys. Explosive I think is at the point where I would almost prefer it be completely reworked.
Before I get started I would like to say that if you haven’t read Jason’s (Zqs) post on Season 1 Mythic+ I would highly recommend it. Mythic Keystones: Season 1 in Review
As a whole this expansion, trash is much more tedious than in Legion. Last expansion one players cooldowns was all it took to mow a single pack down and this expansion every pull takes 30-40+ seconds, this problem is only amplified on Fortified weeks which adds an absolutely absurd amount of overall required damage for a dungeon, especially when compared with tyrannical. In addition to the increased time to kill relative to last expansion trash as a whole is significantly more dangerous. I would love to see game wide trash health, meele damage and spell damage nerfs no matter how small. Minibosses in particular in dungeons just have way to much health. The 3 back to back Minibosses in Shrine of the Storm are a prime example of how out of wack trash health scaling gets (especially with fortified).
Player power is an important factor behind player enjoyment in World of Warcraft, whether that be in the form of damage output, or ability to handle damage input. There has been a lot of talk recently about Community Perception of classes this expansion and when player power as a whole feels significantly weaker than last expansion in dungeons it becomes a lot easier to fixate on the negative as opposed to looking towards the positive. There are any number of tuning knobs that can be played with to adjust throughput for various classes and specs, but the hardest knob to tune that has massive impacts in Mythic+ is the utility that a class provides. The utility that some classes and specs bring are core parts of that spec or classes identity, however many classes are still left wondering what their identity should be in a 5 man dungeon setting besides a guy who punches things. Some unique utility is significantly more powerful when you look at it along side the rest of the toolkit that those classes provide in dungeons, be it through their damage, or healing.
Some notable utility outliers are:
Shroud of Concealment, a 6 minute cooldown that can save 3+ minutes easily each use depending on dungeon. Without adding truesight to nearly every dungeon similar to what was done for matrons in The Underrot more absurd time saves are only just waiting to be discovered, tested and implemented in keystone runs. With all of that being said Shroud is not mandatory for the completion of dungeons, however, no other class utility does what shroud does in a dungeon no other class can claim that they can ever hope to save as much time in a dungeon in the way that Shroud can. <Insert link to the Mythic+ in 8.2 Wowhead shroud skip section here>. Perhaps consider reducing the cooldown on invisibility potions to match? Or remove the restriction on other potions following the usage of an invisibility potion by putting them on a separate cooldown that normal potions. If there was a way to use professions as way to get around your group not having a shroud that would be an absolutely fantastic change. Perhaps a tailoring item that acts as a group wide invisibility cloak? You can get around not having a lust with leatherworking even if you don’t have a leatherworker in your group, so having a way to get around shroud would be something that I would love to see in a patch note one day.
Force of Nature, a 1 minute cooldown that completely transforms what is possible to be pulled by a tank no matter that weeks affixes. Force of Nature is also significantly more powerful than Earth Elemental, a 5 minute cooldown that dies in the same amount of time, or even faster than the 3 Treants summoned from Force of Nature, even though these cooldowns do effectively the same thing. Shamans may bring the best kick in the entire game, but it doesn’t make up for how underwhelming this elemental is.
Gorefiend’s Grasp, the best way to do damage to creatures is to gather them all in one place. Gorefiends grasp has a radius of 15 yards (176.71 square yards), the next best ability is Sigil of Chains which has a radius of only 8 yards (50.27 square yards). Luckily other tanks are extremely viable this expansion so there isn’t a DK only meta. If the tank balance this expansion wasn’t as good as it is currently then the impact of this spell in dungeons would be significantly amplified especially considering how many archers/gunmen/casters there are in BFA dungeons. +1 on tank balance, its actually really good right now.
Affixes:
I could go on and on here about the worst affixes to deal with, and why I dislike playing into them but instead I’ll leave this short and sweet. There is no week of Mythic+ Affixes that I get excited about logging into to experience in any given dungeon. There are only affixes that I either dread going into, or ones that do absolutely nothing to change how you do the dungeons that I don’t even notice at all.
I would love to see more timer tweaks and trash and bosses unchanged, or trash and boss tweaks and timers left unchanged. This is something that needs to be looked at and addressed by dungeon, especially if the keystone acquisition systems stays as it is.
The final note I would like to leave is, please please please do not overtune the 8.2 MEGADUNGEON in such a way that it needs multiple massive targeted nerfs upon release to be timeable like were needed when CoS, Arcway, Cathedral, Upper and Lower Karazhan, and Seat of the Trumpet needed when they were added to the game.
Would have thought watching the mythic world champs and every tank being a blood dk would have told you enough data.
Affixes:
Dungeons:
-Shrine last boss hp need to be nerfed
-Shrine minibosses hp need to be nerfed
-KR 1st boss spit gold damage need to be nerfed
-KR 3rd boss axe debuff need to be shorter
-KR Zul’s damage needs to be nerfed
-KR needs additional timer maybe add 3 min to it, it’s currently the most unforgiving dungeon
-AP reward needs to be buffed
Classes:
Utility between classes needs to be revised. currently DHs and Rogues have no reason to ever be replaced, they have no weaknesses, both do amazing single target and aoe dps with the best utility tools in the game cooped with outstanding survivability and mobility. Why would you ever pick a warrior instead of one of these melee classes? they bring absolutely nothing to a M+ team.
Hey blizzard, i just want to say I’ve had a descent amount of fun with m+, but there are quite a few things that need to address,
Shrine:
Last boss: You took out the ability to put the debuff on the dps, making the last fight take astronomically longer to kill. I think that if you are to keep this change, you need to subsidize this massive nerf by increasing the overall timer of shrine or like you posted earlier, reduce the hp of the boss. The timer of Shrine was already super tight, and the nerf to dps on the last boss made it even tighter.
Waycrest:
The biggest issue is the difficulty discrepancy among the routes you get in this dungeon. Top left, top right, and bottom right. Top left is almost always wanted as you get to find out early in the dungeon whether or not you can even kill the triad boss, but you also get easier infest and much less trash you have to clear as opposed to the other routes. Top right is dreaded on almost every week, you have to clear way more trash, its very awkward with sanguine or bolster, and just makes groups moan when they could’ve gotton top left and had an easier time in the dungeon. I personally think Top left should always be the chosen path, and to get away of this RNG pathing system that is plaguing waycrest runs.
Lord Waycrest/Goliath bosses could use some damage reduction, as they seemingly do way too much damage to the tank,and the fire of the tree boss could use a nerf so the tank and a taunt class dont have to play pinball just to kill goliath on high keys
Freehold: Eudora and the First boss need some kind of damage reduction on tyrannical. The first boss 1 shotting dps on higher keys through stam flask,vers food, and 2x/3x resounding protection is really frustrating, also considering a dps can get poision puddle into a pistol shot and die. Eudora same thing, someone getting 3 pistol shots in a row can just get obliterated, and with 40% tyran hp, you are certain to not have the CDs to handle multiple 3 shot in a row cast from Eudora. Also I would like to add,i noticed on the teeming week that just passed, you gave the turtle boss 1.28%. I thing it should be upped to 3% or maybe even 4% considering he has 4mil hp/5mil hp on a fortified equivalent key.
Kings Rest:
Last Boss:The combo cleave the last boss does for me as a blood dk is absolutely insane, saving 90rp in preperation for a slash that hits 4 times and just decimates me. I found that when i parry atleast 2 of the 4 slashes, the boss is doable for me, but relying on parry is not exactly fun gameplay.
Beserker adds: The bleed damage might need another 10% nerf or more, but i think the interneal cooldown between them stacking the debuff should also be addressed. There are plenty of double beserker packs in a teeming kings rest, that just keep stacking the debuff on the tank unless he kites, but if the tank is kiting it just tightens the timer on kings rest ( probably ranked with shrine as one of the harder dungeons).
Siege (Alliance):
The difficulty discrepancy between alliance and horde siege variants is laughable. The horde dont have to deal with dogs that shred dps, bomberman that straight burn through CDs, and get to farm neutral adds for a safe 15-20% of the dungeon forces. I think maybe the alliance should get the same siege variant as the horde just to level the playing field for this dungeon.
Affixes:
I really do think Blizzard should evaluate some affixe weeks. For example
Teeming fortified explosive
Teeming fortified quaking
Bolster explosive tyrannical
bolster grevious tyrannical
These weeks easily have the lowest m+ participation among other weeks especially when you compare it with
Bursting skittish tyrannical
raging volcannic tyrannical
teeming volcannic tyrannical
Which easily have the world’s highest keys being made and generally have higher m+ participation. I truly believe that affixes that slow down the key such as bolster or explosive should be borderline removed from the game, as the only real counter to these affixes is to pull 4 mobs at a time, when in reality, at 18+ level keys you need to be pulling waaaay more mobs, especially in waycrest or motherlode which everyone dreads doing during those affixes. I also think you guys should consider just having easy affixes for the live service of the game, and keep the hard affixes like explosive/bolster for MDI as a show of skill and overcoming these affixes. I just do not feel having these difficult unfun affixes are healthy for the game. It just feels like when these dreaded affix weeks come around, i just cap on the highest key i can then AFK for the rest of the week, which is unheard of when considering other aspects of the game like pvp or raiding. Imainge not being able to play the game for a week, or more, because affixes that just arent fun allign.
King’s Rest - This dungeon is still awful on so many affixes. The timer is tight, the trash is abusive, and its compounded by how many affixes make it even worse. This entire dungeon is awful and getting a key for it ruins your week as a M+ player.
Shrine of the Storm: This timer could stand to be extended by about 3 minutes, and the last boss needs a compensation nerf on his health, or longer time between the later phase transitions. I’m greatly appreciative of the tornado visuals on the 2nd boss, but feel she casts just a tough too frequently. I would suggest increasing her cast time.
Siege of Boralus: Idc really, I just take a spotter and nuke the tentacles on the last boss. Everything else in this place seems pretty easy as a DPS.
Atal’Dazar: Could stand to use a very slight HP nerf on Yazma for Tyrannical weeks. However, this is one of the easier dungeons so I don’t know that it is necessary (but my opinion is probably skewed as I play a Rogue and can just cloak her spiders).
Freehold: The shark boss is no longer aids, but apparently half the population can no longer do the 2nd boss well. I wouldn’t change anything in here though, the dungeon has a forgiving timer and is pretty well tuned.
Waycrest Manor: The Triad are significantly easier in here. The only thing this dungeon really suffers from is certain affixes that will never be balanced in here. This used to be offset by key deletion, but now this place just feels like cancer on some weeks and free on others.
Temple of Sethralis: I ran some lower keys in here, the last boss is much better. Since the fix to the first boss cyclone strike, this place is pretty well balanced. My only complaint can’t even be fixed though, the eye room is just annoying AF (imo). I stay away from here mostly.
The Underrot: Never had an issue with this place aside from the first boss. That was fixed, but the Matron’s were given true sight. This seemed like a poorly thought out change, those adds were skipped for a reason.
To touch on another aspect of M+ though: Tyrannical vs Fortified. These affixes are severely out of balance with how much trash, and how dangerous trash can be in the BfA dungeons. The percentages of Fortified really should be brought in line with Tyrannical so we can all enjoy M+ every week instead of half the scene dropping out on Fort affix. Finding groups is a chore on Fort week, and then chesting is a whole nother story. A group of DPS average 17k-20k overall shouldn’t be pushing a timer close in a 14 key just because the trash is so absurdly overtuned.
And lastly: Key Deletion. I didn’t play Legion, so I don’t know how it was then, but I do know how it was when I got into M+ in BFA. Not being able to reroll your key feels awful. Please implement something similar, rolling a King’s Rest 15 straight out of your chest makes me want to stop playing for the week.
why not 3 items in your loot, azerite item weapon and random armour? I mean its what the majority of the community thought was coming in the first place. You know how bad it feels to open your chest and go, yay something for the scrapper? well it could be “yay 3 items for the scrapper” that’s MORE positive!
i mean with this kind of RNG yes you’ll also have some guy open his chest first week and get 3 BIS items, but that’s RNG. Or an up to 3 which i think is more accurate to what we were expecting, but you know this one item and its not something important like azerite armour is kinda feeling a bit weak. Not that removing it and replacing a currency is bad, it might be better depending on the scaling of how fast to get a TARGETED peice, you know that item you wanted. But atm i hope that currency is improved season 2 onward. Not feeling 2 month grind for a BIS slot.
I’m an average mythic+ healer. My perspective comes from that place.
Please look at the affixes again. Quaking should not occur out of combat and should be smaller, like volcanic. Allow grievous to drop out of combat like necrotic OR make it so it affects all healers equally. In fact, if I had my druthers, I’d delete grievous and call it a day. When mobs are affected by teeming, please adjust what is added – some teeming pulls are beyond frustrating (Shrine bridge, for example).
As well, the way some of the bosses interact with affixes is silly. Grievous and Waycrest is frustrating. Volcanic and the final boss in Underrot is silly (can’t remember explosive for that guy). Explosive and the final boss in Temple is frustrating. Etc…
Please address the meta. When I run with a meta group, I feel like I’ve found a god-mode cheat code. For example, give invisibility pots the same CD as shroud + 1 min and disconnect it from all other pots OR make shroud put all pots on a CD within the group.
Please give us a way to re-roll keys. I’ve gotten Shrine and King’s Rest so many times, it’s comical. One week, my main and 2 of my alts had King’s Rest. I’d use the azerite gear currency to dump a key.
Please give us some duplicate protection with keys. I had some guildies kind enough to run my Shrine 10 one week so I could get a new key. We failed the timer, and I got Shrine 9. For heaven’s sake, please fix this. That was seriously deflating. Make it so that a key can’t degrade or upgrade into the same dungeon.
Please thin the trash. Honestly, working through 10 or 12 packs of trash to get to the first boss in Motherlode is tedious. Looking back, Halls of Valor had a grand total of 3 trash packs between the entrance and the first boss. Maybe that’s too few, but some of these dungeons are just too overloaded with trash, and it becomes an exercise in extreme tedium.
Please give every healer the ability to remove poison, or stop making places like King’s Rest. The trash after the first boss is miserable without the ability to remove poison. I don’t care how short the duration is – give me the ability to remove it. Or, make the abilities that put the poison out there interruptible, just like you make the disease debuff in Underrot interruptible. I don’t care which one; just make it less miserable.
Please give every healer the ability to CC and interrupt. We had it at one time. Please give it back.
Line of sight healing issues occur far too often. We were joking that the bushes in Seige the other night kept me from seeing the tank. Is this really necessary? I mean, the boss can hit me with her debuff if I’m behind a rock. Let me heal the tank if he’s behind the same rock.
And some of the boss fights are pure tedium. The totem boss in Atal’Dazar is beyond frustrating with the movement punishment. The first boss in King’s Rest is a melee unfriendly. The second boss in Shrine is way too comp sensitive.
Quite honestly, the one word I’d use to describe BFA mythic+ against Legion mythic+ is TEDIOUS. The dungeons turn into a slog. I get that we are somewhat away from magical boss one-shot abilities (well, at the key levels I do), but goodness we don’t need this much trash.
I want to enjoy mythic+ again, truly.
They dont spawn until you touch the gripping. If u kill the last demolisher without touching the gripping u can easily zerg the gripping afterwards
Motherlode. On the hill to the last boss the mines give bolstering no matter what. If you kill them or if you dont. We used to be able to let them explode and no bolstering stacks happened.
The reason this is an issue is because some of the machines spawn bombs underneath themselves and we cannot do anything about it.
I havent run motherlode yet this week but id imagine theyre gonna drop sanguine pools also… if thats the case im gonna have sanguine pools literally spawning underneath the mob (a mob thats not always easy to move)
Here are the patch notes if I were in charge:
Atal’Dazar
Freehold
Kings’ Rest
Shrine of the Storm
Siege of Boralus
Temple of Sethraliss
The MOTHERLODE!!!
The Underrot
Tol Dagor
Waycrest Manor
Affixes
Achievements
1400 tank here, so I guess I’ll offer feedback from the mid point of the spectrum.
a) You fixed explosive scaling on last boss of Underrot, but you didn’t fix volcanic scaling. Given the stacking mechanic on that boss, dealing with non-stop volcanic spawns is a bit comical. It’s not deal breaking, but it doesn’t feel like it was intended.
b) King’s Rest, even after all the changes, is still hard to enjoy. RP trash after the first boss is brutal, and is harder than most dungeon bosses in BFA. Then, for a regular trash mob, the Berserkers are too deadly and require way too much effort to deal with (stunning/soaking to reset dot). Then, there is Shadow of Zul who commands a lust on fortified weeks.
Most dungeons get harder/easier depending on whether it’s tyrannical or fort, but KR is hard every week. Hard bosses (council and King are on the harder end of the spectrum), and hard unavoidable trash make for a dungeon that’s a drag.
c) Motherloade has a puzzling spike in trash difficulty after the second boss. Every group elects to death skip to the last two bosses, rather than deal with the trash. I am all for clever skips (like bears in DHT), but you are skipping half the dungeon right now.
You guys buffed trash tremendously in BFA, and I personally enjoy it! I’d rather wipe to hard trash, than wipe to unavoidable one-shot boss mechanics ala Legion. There is always room to improve on a trash pull.
That being said, it feels like you forgot to re-balance trash-specific affixes to account for this new harder trash. Specifically, explosive and bolstering, and to a lesser degree sanguine, are much harder now than they were in Legion. Explosive with its uncapped spawns dominates you during long trash pulls. Bolstering is depressing in Shrine, Siege and Waycrest, where there are pulls with 4 tiers of HP and uncontrolable Lt mobs. Sang is a drag in the same cramped dungeons.
In Legion you could play around these affixes. Sanguine was easy to deal with, because dungeons had a wide open layout and space to maneuver. There were also not nearly as many mixed-in white mobs dropping the pools. Bolstering was a common sense check. DPS evenly and you win. There were Bolster traps here and there, but a seasoned group knew how to trigger them. Finally, explosive was tolerable because trash died much faster.
These affixes need a tune up.
There needs to be a way to reroll keys. Right now the only way to reroll a bad key is to run it. Give or take, that’s 40-60 minutes of your life just to reroll a key. This is a very steep cost to pay.
It’s very dispiriting when weekend rolls around and your entire groups has dead keys. You are looking at doing the chore of rerolling rather than having fun. Give us a way to reroll a dead key without wasting an hour of our time in a dead dungeon.
This is a good post, but I’m sorry, the problem is (no offence), are you willing to listen to what we have to say or are you simply going to dodge the feedback we give you for so long? Because all of this is really good feedback and very good insights on what we experience in these dungeons. If you are willing to listen, heres what I have to say on that matter:
Tyrannical: disparity between health and dmg. theres a total of 55% increased stats: 40% on health and 15% on dmg. On fortified, 30% hp and 20% dmg. Decrease the health on Tyrannical by 5% if you want to keep the dmg increase in line:
Ex: 35% hp - 15% dmg
Or
Ex: 30%hp - 20% dmg
I’ve also seen Galvazzt energy spires fork as well, I stand on one pillar and soak, while he gets consume charges for some reason, maybe for some reason, its a bug and it forks to him. Is this intended to make two people soak the pillar at once, or is it intended to make everyone soak one pillar at a time?
I was wondering why some places, specifically KR was so much easier and now thanks to the changes it would make me want to run Teeming weeks more often and not skip them, see how that pans out.
But with some changes, like the healing buff on the healer, the Whispers of Power, it makes me think, why not make more of these types of mechanics in each dungeon that allow for non standard groups to pass the place?
And no, I am not talking about the 5 tanks that done UR, I mean like Necrotic or Bolstering week if you did not have a slow, CC or some factors of your group being OP you found it very hard if done wrong.
So like the healing buff that didn’t always go on the healer but now does which makes the fight that little bit easier, place buffs that give members something to boost them to help your group when you are missing something like that much needed mage with his mass CC, or when your tank is a warrior who cannot self heal on fort teeming week for example.
I refuse to join some weeks in some dungeons for this exact reason in that you may need specific mechanics of your own to pass, like the 3-4 interrupts needed on Shrine for the second boss on a high key, and that being another example, you go in with 1 interrupt? Your tank is 50% or less health? Place a mechanic so they can get a reduced CC on their interrupt to help them pass.
Knowing is half the battle, finding the right team to do the mechanics is harder some days than actually doing the content and a good part of why some teams don’t finish dungeons. I mean just look at how easy it is to interrupt, with all the add-ons even easier, with DBM telling you which one to specifically interrupt it is virtually a brain dead mechanic, but with your only interrupt on CD?
I’ve done about 300 keys so far in BFA so here are a couple things I would suggest.
First off, I think Fortified and Tyrannical are bad affixes in general. They don’t add anything to any dungeon other than “that boss is impossible on +x tyrannical” or “you don’t want to do that dungeon on fortified.” In my opinion these should have been removed and replaced by the seasonal affixes.
Next thing is the timers. I definitely think Siege and Kings Rest need +3 min on their timers. Siege is pretty much impossible to time on high keys unless you abuse the spotters. King’s Rest is a problem if you don’t have the perfect group comp to shroud/death run the bridge before the 3rd boss. If you don’t use invis pots to skip 2 packs on the bridge you end up with 112% mob count.
Last thing I’ll say is there are a few select mobs that need to be looked at. The berserkers in King’s Rest, enforcers in Freehold, brute honor guards in Atal, and all the trash after the 2nd boss in Motherlode.
I am not going to comment on specific changes, but on one specific issue I have that occurs in multiple dungeons: Teleporting the player back to a location while fighting.
I have encountered this issue mostly in Freehold, Atal’Dazar and Motherlode.
I am sure that this is known as it occurred to many of my friends as well, but less often than it did for me as far as I know.
Here are a few scenarios in which this issue occurs:
I am simply tank a pull and I get teleported a few yards away and my camera changes very fast which might make me show my back to the pull for no reason.
I pulled the stalker pack in the stairs to the right side of Atal’Dazar and would get teleported back to the stairs again and again for around 10 seconds. (I have footage of this)
I get knocked by a mechanic and I get teleported back behind a mob.
This behavior is new from BFA and has been annoying me a lot as I lose control of my character for a brief moment in dangerous situations.
I feel like it might be a sort of safety net to avoid people getting out of bound or getting stuck in some locations, but it happens at the most random moments which can easily cause a wipe in competitive content.
The only other thing that I can think of that is more specific to 8.1 patch changes would be the last boss in Shrine that has been stated multiple times.
I don’t even want to go in Shrine during a Tyrannical week with the last boss having too much health and taking 4ever. Temple changes were all good other than the first boss fixating during Cyclone Strike which has been fixed in the last patch.
so i almost exclusively run mythic+. I love it. But there are definitely some things that are currently ruining the experience for me. I will list all of my feedback that is immediately on the front of my brain, starting with what is probably the least likely to see any change just to get it out of the way.
As much as everyone else hates it, I love that the trash is complex at times and requires a lot of kicks, stuns and positioning, etc. It was incredibly frustrating at first, but man, learning those pulls has been one of the most rewarding things ive ever experienced in a video game. Especially when im able to pass that on to my friend who just started playing. He is learning dungeons on a pretty advanced level as a result, right from the start.
That being said, fortified and tyrannical need to be looked at before anything else. They both need to keep their heightened damage, maybe even slightly more so. But they need to lose a good portion of the health they have across the board. There is nothing rewarding or enjoyable or satisfying about very long drawn out trash or boss fights. Make mechanics, make them punishing if not followed, but then things need to die. I get the dps checks are part of the game, but lets make it a little less about dps and a little more about mechanics. Would make the game a little less toxic as well. This is a very broad generalization of most of my feedback, but in the following i will try to be more specific.
firstly, shrine, siege, and kings rest do not have enough time. I have done runs on all 3 of these with less than 5 deaths with at least average dps and not timed even like a 13 on shrine. Heck i think i even had a 2 death run the other day that missed a 12 by less than a minute. I have also had 15 death atals and freeholds that have easily been timed with minutes to spare. You fixed temple, please fix the time on the other three. Look at your data from back when key deletion was a thing. Please dont force us to play dungeons we dont want to play and refuse to balance them.
Like what was said above, shrine last boss has way too much health if youre going to split the fight up like that so many times. Atal last boss has too much health as well. Tol dagor last boss needs some sort of sometihng to fix getting several blasts in a row. Unavoidable damage in general is never a good idea for any fight. That fight has way too much of it. In general, that is the most poorly designed boss fight probably in the entire dungeon book for the expansion.
affixes are a mess. look at twitch directory this week. it seems like you dont want people to play mythic + some weeks. most of us enjoy the challenge to some degree. but this is nearly unplayable. the fun is pushing keys. but when you shut down pushign keys, it isnt fun. like im literally on vacation part of this week and now i just cant play the game, really. that sucks.
the gear needs a rework as well. no way a 10 should award the same as a 15, and so forth. 15 should be 380 or 385 like the mythic raiders.
Relative to legion, the first thing I have to say is mythic plus is overall much more frustrating. A few thoughts:
-Tanking mythic plus was so much more fun in legion. Having the ability to keep yourself alive as a tank that isn’t a blood DK was fun.
-Mythic plus is overall a lot more difficult. I really think this is a very negative change- hear me out. I think it makes a lot of sense for mythic plus to get more challenging as new iterations come out. I also think that it should be challenging. However, what the changes to tyrannical and fortified before 10 have actually accomplished is simply slowing down keys, and making it less accessible. I really don’t feel like this was well thought out.
-Certain affixes are mindnumbingly frustrating. Grievous is undoubtedly the king of “frustrating affixes”, with quaking being a close second. Something I haven’t seen anyone talking about is how terrible grievous is for restoration shamans. Getting people above 90% is very difficult because of how mastery works. Spirit link totem actually hurts you if you don’t coordinate it extremely well. These are a few of the many problems.
-Certain dungeons seem unapproachable. I don’t even want to try shrine of the storm. It seems like this dungeon requires rogue, death skip, and all other sorts of stuff to even just… like, to even run it to begin with. The worst dungeon in legion was undoubtedly seat, but I never felt like I got a key that was unapproachable like shrine, where trash is so tightly packed together in some sections that it is stressful to even just walk through the door. The necessity of perfect interrupts is also not fun. It is frustrating.
-To kind of continue this, I really feel like certain dungeons are without a doubt the “I got this dungeon, this key is dead” dungeon. Shrine and kings rest both scream this to me.
I rather speak about the entire mythic+ in general especially when you have m+ 2 to +15 targeting pretty much everyone.
And as usual i am gonna say what i said last time is to remove the timer again* and to change the lockout as to how the usual mythic +0 works so we can invite/kick freely. I am not sure why you guys are favouring the “go go go” players. You can already see the impatience taking hold as with comments like “we are not gonna wait 10 min for hero debuff” or " we don’t want to cc pull" and also the rants with certain affixs that tend to slow ppl down ![:rofl:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/rofl.png?v=6" ":rofl:")
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A tool like raider. io is used mostly as discrimination tool . Which is all a consequence of how the entire system is made pug unfriendly.