We recently saw a number of changes to Mythic+ dungeons in the recent Tides of Vengeance update. Now that you’ve all experienced these changes for a couple of weeks, we wanted to take a moment and see what your thoughts are on them. This can be about anything you’ve experienced since then. This can be about specific dungeons, affixes, or the system as a whole.
If you haven’t yet tried some of the retuned dungeons I encourage you to try them out before commenting as some dungeons like Temple of Sethralis, King’s Rest, and Siege of Boralus received a few big changes. All of the dungeons received tuning changes in some form but those three at least were the biggest.
Thanks for taking the time and sharing your thoughts!
Thank you for taking the time to gather feedback from the community. This is something that is really appreciated and we genuinely are elated to give response to.
One major thing that I do notice when pushing higher keys (On tyrannical specifically) is that some of the HP on bosses seem to be astronomically scaled. I would like to see the HP on some particular bosses (Finals in Atal’Dazar and Shrine specifically) scaled back a little bit. Shrine of the Storm, with the changes in the way the damage increasing debuff is applied, makes it feel like the Boss’ pool of health is simply too large.
I pretty much exclusively run mythic pluses with friends and in guild (nothing higher than a 12) so this may not apply to most players. However, overall I feel like the dungeons take too long , are more punishing of mistakes, and have way too much trash compared to legion. The weekly chest reward can be decent, but the end of chest rewards seem lackluster compared to legion. Bottom line is legion M+ seemed more fun than BFA ones do.
Funny enough, the team actually is looking at the final bosses health in Shrine and I think are testing some changes to it. Nothing to share exactly on it, but it is being looked at. I’ll mention Atal as well.
I know key deletion was never intended to be in the game but it was a great QOL feature. It would be great to have some way of re rolling your keystone. I enjoy all the bfa dungeons but sometimes you just keep getting the same keys over and over and that gets boring.
I don’t think some of the changes went far enough.
Several of the nerfs to Shine of the Storm were to increase the recast time of several abilities, I looked at that as intentional changes to reduce the reliance of double melee + ranged simply for the faster interupts. The 2nd and 3rd bosses (void bolt on stormsong hits so damn hard on tyranical) and the AE casters after the 2nd boss still chain cast endlessly with no lockout.
There’s some trash pulls in dungeons that need to be looked at, a big on here would the the last pull of Freehold being so absurd it’s skipped by almost everyone. Just remove an Enforcer from that pack and call it a day?
Please look at the first boss in Kings Rest, spit gold does way to much damage.
Fortified VS Tyranical is not balanced in the slightest. BfA made trash way harder, and bosses outside of a few that are particularly nasty made Fortified the way harder of the two affixes. This is even more true on the damage intake side of tanking, I wouldn’t mind seeing them dropped from 20% health 20% damage increases to 15% health 10% damage increases.
I was really big into mythic+ in legion and had a very high IO score on my main. I have not touched mythic+ in BfA since the first week it was launched.
The reason I loved it in legion and hate it in BfA is simple. The dungeons that came out in legion were from before mythic+ was a thing. They were very enjoyable to play on mythic+
The end of legion blizzard designed the worst and least fun dungeon in seat of the triumvirate. This was intended to be the first dungeon designed with mythic+ in mind and was by far the least liked by the community.
You then took this design and created all BfA dungeons to have way more adds than needed and made the dungeons very tedious to run. On top of this your dev team gave the adds in mythic+ extremely annoying abilities that did not exist in legion like way to many have knockbacks, stuns etc…
My suggestion not that it will be even considered is to please go back to the way dungeons were in early legion when mythic+ was a great success and remove this huge amount of adds and take away the annoying abilities that turn something that should be a fun competitive event into an annoying drag that is not worth the effort.
I’m not a fan of how interrupt-oriented Shrine of the Storms is. Having more that one ranged class that isn’t an Elemental Shaman can make things extremely difficult and on some bosses losing a melee can basically equal a wipe.
I’m also not keen about having my battle rez taken from me when they’re so crucial in M+. The Engineering item helps but having to use it in melee range and have a cast time can be difficult. (not to mention you have to be an engineer to use them)
As someone who plays from the oceanic region on an NA realm I greatly appreciate the changes made in Temple of Sneks that slowed down some of the environment obstacles <3
EDIT: please for the love of dog fix the pathing on the last boss of siege. Having to dismiss my pet and it STILL bugs out makes me want to yeet my gun into the ocean depths
If you’re going to limit the debuff/buff to exclusively healers in shrine, you should really look at the bosses health.
For overall balance I’d seriously consider looking at the CD of invisibility potions as a whole. While you rightfully targeted blood DK dominance in M+ as a whole, nothing has been done to curb a class that essentially exists in every composition, rogues. Shroud shouldn’t be removed or changed, but eliminating reliance on it can be done with smart changes to invisibility potions. Why they have a 10 minute CD in a world where we are forced to kill a certain amount of mobs for percent anyways, is completely beyond me. It certainly shouldn’t be a one minute CD, but locking invisibility potions to a 2-5 minute CD would certainly make the possibility of using them an actual decision. It also might curb the necessary feeling of having to bring a rogue to higher keys.
The changes you made to Grievous make it worse. A number of posts have worked through proofs (requires only simple arithmetic to show). Was this intentional?
Some affixes like Quaking and Bursting can be annoying for the healer to drink up after the trash pack as it will interrupt drinking, not to mention the healer is already behind with the unavoidable damage. I feel like when I need to drink I’ll have to constantly eat food to get around it, it is annoying. Is this being looked at?
I think Fortified still sucks a bit in general. Still makes anything above like a 13 trash just start to take a long time. I’m not a fan of Bolstering, Sanguine, or Grievous. Sanguine and Bolster are just really annoying in almost all BfA dungeons design. Not only how they work as an affix, but how they work with other affixes and the dungeons designs/layouts as well. Grievous damage output still seems really high.
I also think the AP rewards should be better, especially on the weekly cache. But the repeatable award could use a small bump as well IMO.
It would also be really awesome if we could target slots in the cache somehow. Or at least blacklist a few slots.
I would echo that Shrine still feels pretty brutal in general.
Hello,
I like most of the changes to M+ that were made. They did address quite a few of the pain points. I would like to see some more work done. Specifically on tuning dungeons with the affixes.
Underrot this past week was a nightmare on the final boss. The volcano spawning because of the orbs was insane. There really needs to be better tuning on all dungeons with little spawns on the bosses for things like Volcanic and Explosive Orbs. The last boss on Atal’Dazar was also very interesting with the volcanoes, but it wasn’t as punishing as Underrot.
I am not impressed at all with the changes in Siege of Boralus, the changes made to the last boss with the tentacle timing is grueling and unforgiving. The boss was hard enough as it was and the changes honestly have made it worse.
Like there is nothing short to run. With Legion there were the short ones like Maw & CoS and the long ones like HoV and everything else in between.
Everything feels tediously long in BFA. Mob kills seems high all the time. It would be nice if some were lowered to make them shorter dungeons (with timer shorten too).
Utility really needs to be better spread amongst classes/specs. Esp things like shroud and various knockbacks (comparing the lousy knockbacks like Priest & shaman vs the good knock backs druids & monks).
I have a couple things to note first the person you quoted does have an actual point tyranical after certain level bosses just take far too long this includes places like siege I think this becomes noticeable after 15, Shrine since the shrine to list off the top of my head
Second there is no reason to push anything beyond a 10 outside of RIO there are no rewards (What challenge modes did right) unique teleports mounts mogs what ever. Offer incentive to push high keys yes doing a weekly 10 is one thing but having things to chase for like unique teleports at the end of the season if you push X dungeon at Y level a certain number of times or a unique dungeon theme mog, or even a mount just more of a reason to push keys beyond 10 even titles for the realm best times for each dungeon.
There still is no way outside of using a third party tool to track effectively who did what key and what level and time.
Explosive needs to go or it needs another look at as its just not an enjoyable affix.