it proves that someone timed dungeons at certain levels and did so repeatedly. realistically, there is no other more important information you could possibly get from strangers. you suggested item level… literally that means absolutely, positively nothing at all other than a rough idea of how much hp someone is going to have, which is next to useless.
so lets look at what can be measured. remember, anything that is going to be helpful in making groups must be tangible and measurable. you suggested item level, io suggests experience. what else is tangible or measurable? raid experience is. ive done measly 10 keys with 8/8 mythic raiders who you would swear were autistic. why? because they had low io scores which directly means that they simply dont have the experience. those guys will beat you on the meters because theyre geared out of their minds and are the best at tunneling in the whole world, but they dont know what to interrupt, they dont know what to stun. they dont know anything other than how to do dmg. ill take the 370 guy with a 1kio anyday.
It doesn’t make them a jerk to not want to carry or spend an hour instructing a class on how to M+. People need to be upfront if it is going to be a low skill group. It isn’t fair to only blame the more skilled player.
And as was mentioned before, a punishment for leaving hurts players who all mutually agree the key is dead and want to leave to start a new key or redo the lower level. That is almost everyone who actually pushes keys.
See this is why a more informative system would be very beneficial but I’am also realistic enough to understand it will likely never happen.
Okay so I’m not going into the instances themselves since others have written dissertations on them ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
That said one thing that’s came up in a few posts is keystone deletion. I totally understand why it was removed, it was an counter-intuitive gameplay system put in place to fix a flaw. I get it. I was sad when it went away but I understand it.
That being said there really needs a way to avoid getting stuck on keys. Example the other day I was running a friend from my normal push group through a few lower keys so he could gear an alt. Base mythic, got a 2 TOS, do that, get a 5 TOS… Do that. Get a 7 TOS… Drop it to a 6 because that’s the best farming point time/effort/ilevel… get an 8 TOS…
Now I don’t hate TOS… but at this point I’m really sick of the snecks and want to do something, anything, else. Can we please get something like completing a keystone gives up a keystone for one of the other 9 instances in the game…
It’s not an isolated example either, sometimes my normal push group will end up with five copies of the same key because we get say WC 16 and just go ugg, alright lets push another key… and get another WC… repeat.
It just feels bad to get stuck doing the same key over and over again, especially if its a key that is painful on the current week. (WCM on Sanguine… Ugggggggggggg… the hallways…)
I have played an absolute ton of mythic plus in BFA. The biggest problems with mythic plus in BFA are as follows
- Reward system over complicated and anemic
- Affixes have not been adjusted from legion
- No in game way to see mythic+ proficancy from pug forming.
1a. I cannot count the times a over 1000 rated i.o player has been taking or chatting with me about what key to run and say something like “let’s do SoTS, I need new shoulders” only to have to be reminded that azerite gear won’t drop in mythic plus. If a player who has timed every key on ten or higher can’t remember this how can casual or new players even hope to begin to understand the mythic plus reward system. and in response to criticizm Blizzard complicated it further with Titan residium. In my opinion keep residium and just allow azerite gear to drop from keys completed in time. Allows for failure but really ups the stakes on success.
2a. Sanguine is the greatest offender of point 2 the dungeons in legion where much less densly ( meaning Mob to floor space ratio) in legion and frankly mythic plus was so easy at the end of legion because of our God like weapons and concordance and stuff that sanguine was a non-affix and could be almost wholy ignored save for some positioning changes.
However in the new ( and in my opinion largely better) dungeons sanguine has turned from minor positional changer to a nightmarish time sink. Some instances like waycrest Manor or atal drazar have their difficultly increased exponentially from the addition of Sanguine and not for the right reasons. Simply because of the way the dungeon is structured. And perhaps the greatest offense of all spawns of guhun heal from sanguine and both will drop from the same mob…really devs? In a game mode where I am supposed to be speed running sanguine isn’t a modifier it’s a game changer. I want to speed run that’s why I’m playing mythic+ if I wanted to puzzle solve I’d go sell hivemind carries.
3a. And lastly raider . io may not be the most fair or best system for tracking player knowlage but it is all we have. If you want to make mythic+ an esport you need to have a raiting system. In game I don’t understand why world of Warcraft wants to hide the differences in player skill now-a-days I came to this game because my real-life raiting is low. I’m uneducated, poor, homely
But in years past I could park my toon next to Chris Hemsworth himself, and if he wasn’t raiding, for a minute I could feel like the big dog in the park. I digress, People like to feel good and accomplish things and people need to have those players to look up too. Would millions of people be playing league of legends if faker wasn’t there to inspire them. Or ninja with fortnite if you need a corporate buzzword to wake you up. Why wasn’t wod successful you could accomplish all the content in a month then nothing for 9 BFA has the same problem only you’re working so hard to make so much for content that untimately is either a chore or trivialily easy. We want our challenge back
I would love if you could add a way to restart a key over so people can practice pulls etc… Make it that if you do restart the key you are not eligible for loot though.
Please either perfectly balance all of the dungeons and affixes across all classes and specs, or give us a key reroll mechanism.
I have one extra feedback that is not exactly about M+ but about the titan residuum system, not sure if this is the right place for it but I really want to communicate this. Currently we have the following options:
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Choosing a random piece every 2-3 weeks: This one is not so bad, we get a continuous stream of azerite pieces at a decent pace but it’s quite RNG dependent.
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Choosing a specific piece every 8-9 weeks: This one feels terrible, going for this option means it will take month to gear up and there’s little hope to ever put together a good off-spec set or realistically have any options to have multiple sets for different situations.
My idea is to combine both systems, let us have one random piece every 2-3 weeks AND some extra system that every 3rd or 4th time we do this (so around every 8-9 weeks) we can actually choose a specific piece instead of being random… The total amount of gear would be the exact same as before (if we were going for a random piece every 2-3 weeks) but it gives us the chance to every once in a while get the piece we absolutely want, so even if I have terrible RNG at least I have a way to alleviate it a little bit.
They should just let us buy specific azerite piece every 2 weeks. Considering you need multiple items per slot per spec, (at least 6-9 415 ilvl azerite items per spec) for different situations/affixes etc, it will take 3-5 months of play to get even single spec geared. Yet alone multiple specs that you won’t be able to get geared at all…
A random LFG group maker is only going to exacerbate the problem rather than fixing it, regardless of i-level. It’s too easy to get high level gear and having a high i-level doesn’t guarantee anything. I hope Blizzard never implements something like this for m+.
As for the toxicity, I’ve never experienced that in my group. Then again, I only run with my guild mates. In fact, we have a weekly “date” every Wednesday night to push our keys. It’s far more efficient than running with random people every week that you’ve never met and know nothing about. But I guess you’d rather complain and debate about a problem rather than directly doing something to fix it for yourself, right?
And this is coming from someone who hates M+ and refuses to use Raider IO.
As for m+, I agree with a lot of people here. Quaking is annoying when I’m trying to drink or rez as a healer, and Grevious is overtuned. When I play my healing priest and abilities go out that hit the entire group for a good chunk of health, I now have to go into super mega OMG panic spam mode to get rid of the debuff. Which is ever so much fun on Heartsbane Triad during the “keep moving phase”.
And god have mercy on your soul if you fall behind on Grevious stacks.
I do like some content has recently been improved. However, certain affix’s dont seem to flow on trash like they did in legion. Non elite mobs should not drop sanguine, or sanguine’s radius needs a massive nerf for BFA.
This wasn’t an issue in legion but when we have tight hallways in BFA dungeons like WM or in TD, or have trash mobs with hard cast abilities, this over complicates the dungeon and content. In shrine having the yellow blobs or non elites drop sanguine is pretty much a nightmare.
Quaking in some situations where we have to stack also isn’t a fair affix. If we have to “huddle” on the final ship platform on the last boss in siege of boralus quaking can mean death and there isn’t much we can do.
The problems are as follows:
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Trash is harder than bosses.
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Overtuned-you need to have higher ilevel to complete the dungeon than the mythic plus rewards.
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Affixes: At the lower keys,they are to hard.
These problems must be fixed or I and other will continue to refuse to participate in this content.
Thank You and Please Fix ASAP.
Best Regards,
Rastlin
Any plans to add cosmetic rewards for completing the Seasonal mythic+ achievement/s? (Battle for Azeroth Keystone Master: Season One/ Battle for Azeroth Keystone conqueror)?
Right, that’s why I suggested a bonus for completed keys, instead of a punishment otherwise.
However, I really really advise people against this mentality of “more skilled players” getting to leave a “low skill group.”
You are a big fan of the scoring system, so who’s fault is it really if you are a “more skilled player” in a “low skill group?”
The main issue here is this pseudo-elitism that has developed around this topic.
Its really embarrassing, how many people think they are better than they are.
Newsflash: if you wipe once because some one else made a mistake in a key that is not your own, you are not some how beyond that skill level that you should leave immediately.
If you can find me a group that is holding hostages wiping for hours to a single mistake let me know, but in my experience its just a single error that happens and some one leaves over every time.
NO ONE is ever so much more skilled than some one else to justify that. You just think you are.
The best players help those who need the help, and if you think about it, helping those who are pugging a key you seem to want to do would be in everyone’s best interest, so the next group you join is less likely to have the same issue.
No one seems to want to do anything but serve themselves then, and that is really really a sad thing in an MMORPG.
If you can find me a group that is holding hostages wiping for hours to a single mistake let me know, but in my experience its just a single error that happens and some one leaves over every time.
you don’t see that because people can leave without punishment. if you receive punishment for leaving, then players can be held hostage.
you are struggling to understand that people do higher keys TO COMPLETE THEM ON TIME. if that mistake will cause the key to deplete, it is not worth staying because you won’t complete it on time. people unanimously agree it is a waste of time to complete it, so they leave. there is nothing wrong with that. stop painting it in such a poor light. the 200 AP and crappy 370 is not worth the time. there is no reason to keep going.
The best players help those who need the help, and if you think about it, helping those who are pugging a key you seem to want to do would be in everyone’s best interest, so the next group you join is less likely to have the same issue.
Jesus, no. People do not sign up for keys to teach people they will never see again how to do things. And you are suggesting a punishment that would negatively impact groups that PLAY TOGETHER CONSISTENTLY. You are right, it is an MMORPG. So stop pretending organized groups that successfully run hard content should be punished in favor of people who are behind the curve.
The main issue here is this pseudo-elitism that has developed around this topic.
The bigger issue is that you are creating a pity party for people who struggle more than others in certain content. You don’t care about people playing together, you care about wanting people to get carried.
Have ya’ll considered something that is hard, but not timed? don’t have to call it M+, just instances that have variable hardness levels like M+ but you get drops based on hardness for completing them. NO cache, rewards right then right there. Or maybe just something like a valor points and vendor for all slots including weapons at appropriate Ilvl.
Bet that lots of folk who hate playing beat the clock would do those instead or in addition.
Be even nicer if they were queuable instead of travel to the instance entrance.
MAJOR M+ ISSUE #1:
Players are not motivated to push keys on weeks of [bolstering,necrotic,explosive]. These affixes are disproportionately punishing for pulling more than 1-2 mobs, which makes m+ pushing completely uninteresting. This creates reason for players to start playing other games, and trust me, they usually don’t come back for good affixes.
Perfect example is next week (starting Jan 15) Bolstering Explosive Tyrannical. This is quite literally the worst affix combination you could possibly have. Trash is slow, bosses are slow, one mistake equates to a wipe. Why even have a week like this? What’s the point? To make your game frustrating and boring? Pugging would be hellish. There is no incentive to play m+ for the entire week. The way the system is now, there are only 4 / 12 weeks where players enjoy pushing keys.
The first week of M+ was necrotic, sanguine, fortified. I couldn’t think of a strategy better to get players to quit the game than to start them on this affix combination as their introduction to M+. A few of the people I did M0’s with in preparation for M+ stopped signing on a few days into the first week of m+ simply because of a horrible decision to start on such a poor affix combination.
Short-term solution #1: make the majority of the weeks [8/12-10/12] contain affixes which people actually enjoy playing [anything but explosive,necrotic,bolstering].
Short-term solution #2: Make explosives cap at 1 spawn per 1 second. Reduce the duration of necrotic by 50% and allow only 1 stack per .5 second. Reduce bolstering buff to 5% instead of 20%. These changes would make m+ interesting because pushing keys to levels you’re interested in would be viable instead of practically impossible.
Long-term solution: create a m+ in-game team system, similar to the way guilds are formed. Teams would be ranked according to their key completion percentile for each affix combination [e.g. completed a bolstering,explosive,tyrannical key in the top 1% of all teams of that affix combination]. This would recognize groups who pushed difficult affixes to relatively high levels, and get rid of the nonsense of assigning the same difficulty value to a raging,explosive,tyrannical week as a teeming,explosive,fortified week. Make the team ranks publicly viewable, create in-game achievements for completing a key in the top 10%,5%,1%, with titles and mounts. This would really revolutionize m+ and I guarantee you’d see interest in m+ explode if this happened.
MAJOR M+ ISSUE #2:
The rewards for doing very difficult m+ content do not exist.
Players pushing keys in the top 1% of the world absolutely deserve to be rewarded far more than those who buy 10’s every week on monday night.
Solution:
Make base loot ilvl at mythic-raid ilvl at the top 1% of keystone completion difficulty during that affix combination. Example: if you do a 20 tyrannical ToS, the base loot ilvl for the current patch should be 385.
Make azerite gear droppable at the top 5% of keystone completion difficulty during that affix combination. Example: if you do a 17 motherlode, you should have a chance of getting an azerite piece, or at the very least, titan residiuum.
Make epic crafting materials droppable at the top 10% of keystone completion difficulty during that affix combination. Example: if you do a 14 underrot, you should get some sanguicell, or whatever epic crafting item it is during that patch.
Personally I think all of the dungeons are finely tuned after the last big set of changes. There’s no dungeon which is undo-able during fortified or tyrannical. I can see how people get frustrated with the punishing mechanics of the trash but using your interrupt button will solve 95% of those annoyances.
What about some tunning into the Sanguine affix? This affix is not properly working in this dungeons, Legion was fine, dungeons had a lot of space and you can kite or stack sanguine without issues, it was only annoying in BRH but nothign compared about how its working here. The trash inside the dungeons is too much, the hallways are too short and with this affix is almost impossible to complete a 10 or higher without having a BDK or a VDH. Can you at least take in count this and rework this affix?
Tell that to your 3 shadow priests with 45 sec interrupt ![:smiley:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
Dungeons should be balanced around worst case scenario, not around meta setup with tons of mass stuns, short interrupts and other numerous CC and insane AoE on top of that.
Why not give all healers interrupts back? Why not lower CD in shadow priest interrupt? Why not give all classes equal AoE capabilities? List goes on…
I just want to re-iterate: please PLEASE let us re-roll keys!
My main did her Underrot 12, didn’t time it but completed it, and she got Underrot 11.
My warlock alt did her Temple 9, +1’d it, and she got Temple 10.
Please PLEASE stop letting keys do this. This is frustrating. I don’t want to do the same dungeon again and again. Put some protection in against this.
Or look at my account and remove the #curse affix. LOL Holy smokes.