Feedback: Hunters

In Development Undermine(d) PTR Discussion
1279

MM really isnt either. Best bet is to make a 4th spec for hunter or rogue. A true lone wolf spec. They could call the spec Archer or Lone Wolf! Since people want to keep touting MM to be a “sniper spec” (which it rly isnt) they could give rogues a ranged spec with just that plus stealth. Arent snipers/archers supposed to take their targets down from range but not be seen? “1 shot 1 kill” oh crap, this isnt Overwatch :rofl: Unless headshots are going to be enabled :woman_shrugging:

Hunters are the “pet class” of the game… CLASS, not spec. Leave MM alone and make a true petless spec for said class or make the “Ranger” a spec for an already petless class. Rogues are long overdue for a ranged spec anyway.

9 Likes
1280

There is many options to go for 4 spec, but blizz doesn’t want to, because is harder, take time and they are creative bankrupt or they are saving for a “huge expansion revamp” shenanigan.

Rogues getting Gunslinger for ranged spec
Hunter getting Ranger for a petless spec
Warrior getting Archer for a ranged spec

Are some of the examples that would work, but would require a lot of effort to create the class tree/skills.

I would set with tinker, being mail and ranged gun/bow guy

6 Likes
1281

It’s not actually, there are many classes that have spells with animations that contain animals or allusions to helping entities that are considered petless. In fact, there are classes that have temporarily summoned pets that are also considered petless.

As a seasoned player such as yourself, this is something you’d think you would have known :thinking:

It’s pretty clear. It seems in this case you are the one actually making up definitions, to the surprise of absolutely no one.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Pet
4 Likes
1282

Just going to drop this here: https:// www. youtube. com/watch?v=ZXrdvMujqww&t=610s

Time stamp for hunter changes is 4:30-8:15, feel free to check it out on your own time for some of the changes that we might have overlooked in the patch notes, like MM getting the passive leech default.

1 Like
1283

Too bad, nothing that you said hold any ground when blizzard themselves call the eagle a pet

bonus point, none of those “spell animations” or temporary summons are considered part of the core identity of the spec, like blizzard said themselves

But i doubt someone such as yourself would know such things :face_exhaling:

1 Like
1284

Lone Wolf as a Hero Talent tree could be stronger than just the 5% buff talent and offer more interesting gameplay to pet-free Marksmanship players than that single talent, while allowing Blizzard to remove the talent from the base tree and add in a talent that benefits all Marksmanship builds. Everyone wins.

They’ve already got this design framework. It’s brilliant. They should use it.

4 Likes
1285

I think one thing that might help is asking those that want to keep a pet as MM what would aid them in accepting the pet less style that Blizzard is going for, I posted this idea in another topic, and this is what I have to say on such, copied here for discussion in the appropriate thread:

My aim was to cover the bases of survivability, utility and the idea that some don’t want the eagle as well as some want the pet visual or as a non-combat entity for whatever reason,

1286

I agree with you. I feel what a pet is in relation to WoW gameplay was defined by the decades of wow gameplay we’ve had. That being, a Pet Spec has a seperate Unit controled by the player at will. An animation that appears temporarily does not make it a Pet to me.

I’m glad nearly every benefit of having a pet is moving to the hunter itself and no longer requires having the correct pet summoned to get the desired utility, and having it be close to the hunter, and having it not be in crowd control. I like that I cannot need to heal or resurrect the Eagle to get access to utility. Having the utility accessible the first time I push the button is certainly preferred by me. Does any of that make the Eagle a “pet”, I don’t think it does.

3 Likes
1287

how would a lone wolf hero tree work when both BM and SV depend on a pet

1288

I don’t think that a lone wolf hero talent tree is necessary or even a good idea, but if it ever existed, it would only be avaliable for MM since BM and SV require pets for the possibility of providing even mediocre dps. BM and SV can do great damage, but without pets a lot of that goes away.

1 Like
1289

I just learned of this or I would have made this post sooner.

Simply put, this is a huge mistake and bad execution of a class fantasy change that you perceive people want.

Lets break this down.

The Reasoning:
As far as I can tell there are TWO reasons for this change: Spec Fantasy, and losing a damage buff if you break out a pet to use it’s special ability.
Lets discuss those 2 reasons.

Reason number 1, Spec Fantasy is a garbage reason, as you can already NOT SUMMON your pet and have the lone wolf, archer, sniper feeling. FURTHERMORE, you’re literally giving us a flying pet! How is that accomplishing the spec fantasy of being alone? I sometimes, want to be alone and not deal with my pet. I get it, that’s why I play MM hunter. However, when I am alone moving forward, I’m not going to really be alone and have some eagle flying around me? Are you getting that your solution is counter to the problem???
Additionally, sometimes, even as a MM hunter, you NEED or may WANT to use a pet. So you’re removing that FUNCTIONALITY for spec THEME. How is that fair or good?

Reason number 2, on the inconvenience of losing a 5% damage buff so you can use a pet ability… Do you REALLY think that issue deserves a radical change like this? Just off the top of my head I can already come up with a better idea…
A new Marksman Ability that works like your Call Pet ability in that when you click on it, it expands and shows you your pets you currently have on your, and you select one and it uses it’s special ability without being summoned.
Boom! Problem solved.

Execution:
You’re going through all the development time to create a complicated new system/spell to solve a problem that is a minor inconvenience at best. Furthermore, as I already pointed out, you’re doing this by giving MM hunters a flying pet that they can’t really interact with, so you’re NOT REALLY accomplishing the ‘lone archer’ theme, are you?

On top of that, you are removing functionality of the MM spec and forcing them to play as BM or SV (which if they are like me, I assume they don’t want to do that and that is why they are playing MM) if they need to make use of a pet.
On the topic of using a pet, I shouldn’t have to explain this, but to anyone who might argue that never need a pet as MM, lets go over it.

Sometimes you need your pet to tank an elite so you can focus on killing it, instead of trying to kite it, especially if the mob is immune to snares, of there is not an optimal area to kite the mob around in.

Sometimes you want your pet to aggro something so you can mine or herb or whatever without being interrupted.

Sometimes, you want to kill a large pack of mobs that aren’t going to die super fast and you don’t want to have to try to kite/slow an entire pack of mobs, so you can misdirect all the mobs to your pet and burn them down in a focused area.

This is really simple stuff off the top of my head guys.
This change you’re planning is BAD. No one asked for this.
Some people, myself included, like playing a MM Hunter as a lone sniper/gunman type fantasy. And props to you for trying to support that. I mean, it is appreciated. But your execution is horrible in this instance.
I don’t want some eagle flying around me. If I don’t want my pet out, I DON’T WANT A PET OUT.
If I need to use my pet, I CAN. If this causes me to lose 5% damage buff, big deal, I was rewarded with the fact that I have game play options and tool that the pet gave me.

And I’ll say this again, if you are so dead set on preventing people from losing their 5% damage buff if they have to call their pet in a dungeon, or raid, or PvP or whatever, then just go with the idea I proposed. There are sooooo many better ways to fix this than the magical flying eagle.

I’ve had a great time this expansion so far, but this is a real downer. I really can’t stress how angry this change has made me. I don’t get it.
I think Cataclysm was the last time you made some class changes that made me question why I pay you money to play a game that isn’t fun in the way it was before you made the changes.
Please lets continue to avoid that.

12 Likes
1290

Something I would like to see return for the new MM is Exotic Munitions. Choose between a slow for pvp, something for single target, and something for aoe.

1291

Idea! Hear me out here…

New ‘choice’ talent in place of Lone Wolf.
Option 1: MM hunter can use pets just like they do now and lose no abilities or functionality that they’ve had for YEARS. If they don’t have a pet out for x seconds, they gain the 5% damage buff while they don’t have a pet out.
Option 2: Use the new stupid eagle crap, and get the 5% damage buff.

My bitterness aside, this should be a win/win for either side of the debate.
You can either keep playing the way you have, or you can have the new stuff the devs are wanting to give you. You want a flying eagle that can’t tank anything or be misdirected to? Congrats! Go for it!

EDIT: And just so we’re clear here, this is not a new talent you have to also spend a point on, no, this would go in place of Lone Wolf.

5 Likes
1292

that would require more than a thimble’s worth of thought…some of these guys are just throwing out ideas with 0 thought for how to implement it

2 Likes
1293

With Lone Wolf gone they are reimagining the spec fantasy by you interacting with a “pet” without having to deal with traditional pet AI. Did you even read the blue post?

You don’t know this for sure until it’s seen in action. The way they described it is that the eagle will only be visible to enable the spotter’s proc and maybe when you cast the new lust, Harrier’s Call.

Again, they are reimagining the fantasy. This is the main point of contention. Losing traditional pets.

It’s not all that complicated. You have a chance to proc the spotter’s eagle after consuming precise shots. Trueshot dramatically increases that chance. That’s about it from a rotational standpoint.

The lone archer theme is not what they are going for anymore as you have an eagle companion. The current gameplay style of being a lone marksman is going through but with the new fantasy of being accompanied by the eagle. It’s going to feel petless, but your eagle will assist in battle, essentially removing having to deal with pet AI.

The only real point of contention when thinking only about how a pet can help you do something. Take something more difficult and trivialize it.

Inconsequential. It would be easier to freeze trap or kill such a mob. CC immune near a gathering node? Then it’s not even worth dismounting, assuming you have the ability to stay mounted to gather.

These moments are few and far between. But I’ll give it to you.

Quite a few people have been asking for years for the issues with Lone Wolf and Pet Utility to be solved. Problem is they are doing it in a way that some people are not happy with. Doesn’t change the fact they are solving long standing problems.

We don’t know what it looks like yet. You technically will never have a pet out as there’s no AI or buttons to control it. People who say otherwise are being disingenuous.

To have the best of both worlds I think this is an ok idea. Allow traditional pets in the open world and delves (solo content), but not in M+. raid or PVP (group content).

Probably true, but this is the direction. Solutions should be about smoothing this direction to be more palatable for the larger player base instead of just going “change bad”.

Sucks some people feel this way, especially when no one has tried it yet. When I read the blue post I was super excited, but that has leveled out to hopeful skepticism because who knows how it’s going to look and feel.

1 Like
1294

Source on this?

It isn’t currently in the notes (I’ve checked, more than once), and as far as I can tell, the Spotting Eagle offers neither Ferocity, Cunning, nor Tenacity passives/actives (other than Harrier’s Cry, which is a distinct ability you retain even after speccing Tenacious/Cunning).

Further, unless you pick from the Cunning/Tenacious choice node, you are blocked from accessing Trueshot, meaning even if “Ferocious” is the default, you are making huge sacrifices to keep that leech.

1295

The video I linked earlier,

1296

No.

That’s reporting.

What is the source that Dalaran Gaming got that information from? It’s not in the notes, nor any other blue posts discussing the changes. There is no PTR to get testing data from.

My suspicion is that this is a huge assumption based on ??? Birds of Prey is a Cunning family on live, and that’s the pet family that includes Eagles.

1 Like
1297

Yet lust is ferocity, and the vid said hunters are getting both the lust and passive leech of ferocity.

1298

MM does not get Primal Rage, the Ferocity version of Command Pet that grants a 30% group Haste effect.

MM gets Harrier’s Cry, an entirely separate ability unique to MM, that grants a 30% group Haste effect.

How does it follow that because Harrier’s Cry exists, MM will automatically have Predator’s Thirst at all times? Further, how will MM retain Predator’s Thirst after speccing either Cunning or Tenacious, as required to reach key throughout and capstone talents?

I think that portion is an incorrect assumption on the part of the YouTuber, unless there is some sort of official source he is referencing beyond the development notes from the PTR forum blue posts.