I do, but what he’s implying is just too bizarre.
Blessed champion doesn’t take anything away from our ST damage.
I think the stronger WoG and flash of light heal and taking out or removing LoH is a great idea honestly, cuts key binds and takes out a pain the butt ability to balance in one, The big thing that I also agree with is added healing reduction doesn’t have to be mortal strike caliber but something at least would go a long way in helping Ret actually create pressure and kill windows with cd and allow us to lean away from the classic comps that we get locked into cuz its our only option to push rating. I’m all for actually have wings without modifiers but that one is a tricky road but seems like you guys are aware of that too. Great post and love the ideas overall.
where is my lay on hands and my bubble?
you are lowkey cooked
You have die by sword and impending victory, CHECKMATE!
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Indeed, how fool of me, they are the same as paladin skills but much better
It would be nice to have the Hammer of Light bug fixed. It’s clearly hitting your main target with the splash portion of the damage, instead of the full damage in a lot of cases and it would be nice if Sun’s Avatar damage didn’t bug out and straight up not apply at all.
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what do ya know, another streamer using chat ai to “write” a post and get his followers to like it
Are you the game dev? Passive cleave for your rotational skills might have a high chance of them balancing overall spec’s damage around it. ST damage might be a part of it. You never know. Thats why that talent should have never existed and all that damage needed to be baked in divine storm, so you willingly choose to cleave instead of doing it in autopilot mode. And it also breaks CC in pvp (add conc blade here too).
ignore brie if you want to keep a thread on topic guys
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Thanks for pulling this together. I really hope the devs take notice.
I’m a mediocre PvP’er at best so this does not give me a lot of hope for this season 
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This isn’t just ret paladins, the entire pvp game is legitimately f’ed. There are too many classes that are out of control. Too many archaic classes with archaic functionality. Too many new classes with the ability to literally do every fn thing. Bugs plaguing classes, and absolutely NOTHING from these AI devs. For it to be so fn bad that 5 multiglads have to come together and write a gdamn post like this?
This is 1000% not just a paladin issue this is literally an entire management team not giving one bit of F’s to this game thats supposed to “listen to player feedback” and turn a new leaf I can absolutely say with confidence that they are using some form of AI to balance this game OR somehow SOME way you have to be SO bad at your job after 20 years of trial and error to get to where we are right now in pvp.
Its an actual joke of a company to allow this. People are going to waste their time, cry and defend blizz, or report me for speaking the fn truth but if it was ANY other job that required you to maintain a shred of balance and know wtf this game is and that team failed this bad, all of them would be gone. Its so gdamn bad to see complaint after complaint, statistic after statistic of a class overperforming 3x as much as an ENTIRE list of other classes and nothing has been done for weeks.
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Such a questionable post. WHY even suggest “trade offs”? The spec is underperforming why do we have to lose something to gain damage?
They just have to remove pvp modifiers from hammer of light , fv, dawn, divine purpuse, avenging wrath might, healing hands, flash of light, divine protection, lights celerity, shield of vengeance. LOL
Also why are the rrsponses going off about themes and lore??.
Also youd have more luck posting on the arena forums as you have a following, nobody reads the class forums (yea reading the responses, the paladin forums are usually full of non paladin players coming to bash us).
Tier set is not a game changer either. I wonder if its gonna be like df where we didnt even run a tier set bonus. Idk spec is not fun because it deals such poor damage
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Oh God… it’s Christtel! Well let’s see, we’d do this because we shouldn’t have everything and it would be fair. There’s such a thing called “balance” I know you’re unfamiliar.
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I disagree. The spec doesnt have everything. If you did any pvp youd be able to name all the other specs above ret overall right now.
WW is tankier than ret, deals more damage, has better mobility, better cc, situational utility (ms, disarm, area control, etc). I didnt even mentiom warriors, dh, mm, sub, feral, and all the casters currently doing well.
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It hits targets BESIDE your main.
By definition it is not part of your ST, what the hell do you even mean?
This talent people wanted, before the rework there were COPIOUS amounts of comments and feedback about how it felt TERRIBLE that your builders contributed to nothing and that they couldn’t cleave.
And those same people specifically were saying they didn’t want something like DK where their abilities would cleave in DND because it felt terrible.
They solved both.
Then don’t take it, wtf is this?
IT IS WILLINGLY CHOOSING WHEN YOU PUT A TALENT POINT IN IT.
Pick literally any other talent if you don’t want it 
Blessed champion doesn’t contribute nor does it remove anything from ST besides taking a talent point.
If you don’t like it, DON’T TAKE IT.
You’re not balanced around it for ST damage…
It’s like saying Destro warlock ST damage is balanced around Havoc.
So…
About that pvp mobility if we go with the vengeful strikes idea…
Any ideas at all if steed don’t get baseline snare root imumities?
LMAOOOO Im just imagining ret players storming blizzard hq holding them hostage and asking them at gun point “IN RETURN WE NEED…”
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They need more people working on pvp. They can’t even keep up with their own game anymore.
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There would be no increased mobility. That’s the trade off for the PvP talent. Maybe you don’t always run it. It’s just an idea and they probably wouldn’t implement it anyways but hopefully it sparks some ideas of their own.
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The fact is paladin and ret as a whole has always been “thats cool but…”
Freedom, protection and sanctuary (the big boogieman of the arena forums) can and are usually dispelled, stolen, purged.
Our “biggest” cooldowns lock us out of chaining them together (even though more than enough counters exist and are used daily against loh bop and dshield
We can have “range” but no mobility or snares.
We have a cc, but it has to go on the healer or your partner has to cross the healer otherwise your nice stun gets removed.
The fact is, a spec rework, a class rework and multiple iterations later ret remains a mess.
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