False reporting and automated ban

[anon44207803]

Sure you can be kicked out, but you’re talking about a game that exists… BFA.

Ohhhh…I see…so what you are saying is that BFA is WOW but Classic isnt WOW so the “rules dont exist”.

I dont think so.

that people at Activision would like to add to Classic WoW.

Activision isnt involved.

We do not want it… What’s so hard to understand about that?

Then why did you agree to it.

[Xecks-stormrage (Xecks)]

Then why did you agree to it.

cant agree to a tos or coc for a game thats not even out.

[Studmuffyn-veknilash (Studmuffyn)]

Blizzard may very well notice a lot of reports from Johnny and his friends. The problem, though, lies in Blizzard having to prove that Johnny and friends are “falsely reporting another player with the sole intent of restricting their gameplay” and not just reporting another player for what they honestly felt was “spamming” or some other infraction.

Lol if they do it repeatedly and the squelch keep getting overturned, then yah that is what they are talking about, but you are more after the odd squelch or so, that’s a good question, i’m sure they get some right sometimes, and sometimes people simple did not know like you said.

In other words, despite the claims of those favoring the auto squelch that anyone abusing the system will be punished, it took you over an hour of searching to find even a single case of someone being punished for 'abusing the reporting system". Even then, the only example you could find was not even WoW, but another Blizzard game.

and Blizzards own words on the subject, why would this be any different?

[anon44207803]

cant agree to a tos or coc for a game thats not even out.

Ill be polite and quietly point out that the TOS is the same and will be the same for both. The legal team is NOT going to write out a whole new TOS for Classic.

TOS will be , by necessity, universal.

Same rules for all.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

if they do it a lot, then yah, i would say Blizzard would notice, they even refer to that in the blue post that was referenced in one of these threads.

They do say that “falsely reporting another player with the sole intent of restricting their gameplay is also unacceptable and will result in penalties to your account.”

Blizzard may very well notice a lot of reports from Johnny and his friends. The problem, though, lies in Blizzard having to prove that Johnny and friends are “falsely reporting another player with the sole intent of restricting their gameplay” and not just reporting another player for what they honestly felt was “spamming” or some other infraction.

IMO, there is too much grey in most cases to prove that Johnny and his friends were " “falsely reporting another player with the sole intent of restricting their gameplay” and actually take action against Johnny and his friends.

The argument that blizzard gm’s can’t properly enforce issues once they’re brought to their attention is not a compelling argument for going back to the pre right click reporting system.

[Fesz-cenarius]

Are Blizzard able to have two seperate reporting lines under the one system? I thought has the new structure behind it?

The 7.3.5 infrastructure supports right click report, but that is not part of the 1.12 coding and data.

How difficult it would be to have the right click report tied to an auto ignore in classic and the auto squelch in BFA I cannot say.

We already know that many of the things that the 7.3.5 sill support will be different in classic. There will be no achievements or transmog in classic, for example.

Unless I am mistaken, Blizzard has already indicated that not all add-ons that work in retail will work in classic, meaning that there will be two different “rulesets” for add-ons at least.

[Gnocci-emerald-dream]

You still have not yet addressed how Blizzard can prove that that those reports were fraudulently submitted

They need not “prove” anything. It is their house, their call.
Either you trust them to make the right call on fraudulent report abuse, or remove them from the equation entirely.

Billy thinks it will be funny to try to start a typical chat spam by posting “did someone say <Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker>” in chat. He draws enough reports to silence him because that is generally only said to start chat spam. By the time enough people report him, however, he has said 5 other innocuous things in chat. The later people reporting are just clicking on Billy;s name for those later chat posts, not the offending “did someone say” chat post. How does linking those later reports to specific innocuous chat posts help?

Upon review Blizzard overturns that silence. How do they prove that those reporting Billy did so maliciously and “fraudulently”?

Why are these “later people” reporting him if they were not around for the actual offense? If they do not link what was reported to be trolling or spam, then it’s clear that THOSE number of reports were fraudulent. It’s not rocket science.

I am skeptical that if Blizzard finds those reports do not warrant any action, that they can prove that those reports were actually filed maliciously and/or fraudulently in order to take action against the reporting players.

Do you imagine those GMs are not the same GMs that would be reviewing the reports for fraud regardless of the two systems used?

How do they prove that I and the others reporting you did so maliciously and./or fraudulently and not because we subjectively honestly believed that you were trying to troll by bringing up a controversial and polarizing public figure disliked by many and declaring him a “musical genius”?

in /trade or in /general? In the former it warrants a silence, in the latter the reports are fraudulent. Unless you equate talking about Kanye West on a level of national politics, religion or other obvious hot button bait.

[Studmuffyn-veknilash (Studmuffyn)]

nless you equate talking about Kanye West on a level of national politics

Well if he runs in 2020…

[Fesz-cenarius]

In other words, despite the claims of those favoring the auto squelch that anyone abusing the system will be punished, it took you over an hour of searching to find even a single case of someone being punished for 'abusing the reporting system". Even then, the only example you could find was not even WoW, but another Blizzard game.

and Blizzards own words on the subject, why would this be any different?

So, despite the claims that everyone who abuses the right click report system will be punished only one example can be shown, and that example is not even from WOW?

Do you expect us all to believe that no one has ever abused the right click report system, despite evidence having been presented that it has been abused?

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

Ill be polite and quietly point out that the TOS is the same and will be the same for both. The legal team is NOT going to write out a whole new TOS for Classic.

Do you work for Activision? No? Oh, ok then…

And yes, Activision is 100% the puppet master now. It would behoove you to do your homework on corporate America and what a hostile takeover is.

[Rexxah-rexxar]

It is really all confusing Fesz! I honestly have no idea.

[Fesz-cenarius]

if they do it a lot, then yah, i would say Blizzard would notice, they even refer to that in the blue post that was referenced in one of these threads.

They do say that “falsely reporting another player with the sole intent of restricting their gameplay is also unacceptable and will result in penalties to your account.”

Blizzard may very well notice a lot of reports from Johnny and his friends. The problem, though, lies in Blizzard having to prove that Johnny and friends are “falsely reporting another player with the sole intent of restricting their gameplay” and not just reporting another player for what they honestly felt was “spamming” or some other infraction.

IMO, there is too much grey in most cases to prove that Johnny and his friends were " “falsely reporting another player with the sole intent of restricting their gameplay” and actually take action against Johnny and his friends.

The argument that blizzard gm’s can’t properly enforce issues once they’re brought to their attention is not a compelling argument for going back to the pre right click reporting system.

I’ve never asked to go back to the “pre right click reporting system”. I only asked that that right click report be tied to an auto ignore and NOT an auto squelch.

[Gnocci-emerald-dream]

It also matters very much if you are trying to sell a good or service in /trade whether right click reports ignore a player trying to sell that same good or service at a lower price or if right click reports silence that player.

That is a clear fraudulent violation and as I said a number of times already, those people should be penalized as harshly as possible.

The latter means that you can have your cronies

Your cronies should and would likely be penalized just as you are for fraudulent reporting, and the evidence that you did so would be unmistakable

If Blizzard overturns the squelch, your cronies simply say "We felt that it was ‘spam’ ". How does Blizzard prove that they didn’t think it was “spam” and those reports were fraudulent or malicious in order to take action against them?

Once again, blizzard need not prove anything to players.
Their house, their call.

[Studmuffyn-veknilash (Studmuffyn)]

So, despite the claims that everyone who abuses the right click report system will be punished only one example can be shown, and that example is not even from WOW?

So they punish every other abuser, but somehow people who repeatedly abuse this system, (as they have stated will be punished) are somehow not ever punished? Or those who don’t repeatedly abuse it if they figure it that way.

Do you expect us all to believe that no one has ever abused the right click report system, despite evidence having been presented that it has been abused?

Um no? not sure why you would ask me that, that is not something I have ever even remotely suggested

[anon44207803]

Do you work for Activision? No? Oh, ok then…

Nope. WOW isnt an Activision game I…oh you are stuck on that silly meme again.

And yes, Activision is 100% the puppet master now

It would behoove you to do your homework on corporate America and what a hostile takeover is.

When one happens, let me know.

[Studmuffyn-veknilash (Studmuffyn)]

I’ve never asked to go back to the “pre right click reporting system”. I only asked that that right click report be tied to an auto ignore and NOT an auto squelch.

I think its a temp ignore too, and not tied to our actual ignore list, which is even better imo.

[Fesz-cenarius]

It also matters very much if you are trying to sell a good or service in /trade whether right click reports ignore a player trying to sell that same good or service at a lower price or if right click reports silence that player.

That is a clear fraudulent violation and as I said a number of times already, those people should be penalized as harshly as possible.

The latter means that you can have your cronies

Your cronies should and would likely be penalized just as you are for fraudulent reporting, and the evidence that you did so would be unmistakable

If Blizzard overturns the squelch, your cronies simply say "We felt that it was ‘spam’ ". How does Blizzard prove that they didn’t think it was “spam” and those reports were fraudulent or malicious in order to take action against them?

Once again, blizzard need not prove anything to players.
Their house, their call.

In your opinion, that is clear case of fraudulent reporting, but good luck proving that.

Are you going to refuse to acknowledge that anyone advertising in /trade to sell a good or product will repeat that advertisement numerous times, which could be construed as “spam”?

BTW, Johnny likely isn’t actually going to be dumb enough to report that competitor himself. Nor will his cronies likely be dumb enough to report that competitor on their mains or characters that are in the same guild with Johnny. They’ll log onto their bank alts or create throwaway characters with which to report that competitor.

[Gnocci-emerald-dream]

I have no numbers to back this up, but it seems fair to say that most people who are watching chat are not participating in chat.

I have no numbers to back this up, but I wager that those conducting business in /trade are there to conduct trade business, not chat, and those viewing /trade to see what is being bought/sold are not there for general chat.

I am not speaking of spam in general. I am talking about it primarily in topic specific public channels like /trade. I really do not care what people are discussing in general, as long as it is not 1. politics, 2. Religion, 3. racism/sexism/otherisms. If there is an actual public LFG channel (blizzard made), then that too should be restricted to topic specific posts same as /trade.

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

Here’s a thought on this Studmuffyn.

If it cost a GM 5 min to review a complaint about a squelch that a player finds un-just… And 10 players are reported a day, that’s 50 min of work for the GM yes?

Now under the old system players must be reported and then the GM deals with them. Let us assume that it takes the same time to review a situation at 5 min, and say they still get the same number of complaints per day. This again is 50 min.

Where is the real difference? Where the rubber meets the road. Under one system the players have power, and in the other the GM has the power.

I would rather a non-bias 3rd party like a GM be the one making the calls on these things rather than people offended in the heat of the moment over often something that’s not worth a ban.

Either way, neither saves the GM any work, and only one system is truly fair and that being the original system where the GM makes the call on who is punished or not.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

if they do it a lot, then yah, i would say Blizzard would notice, they even refer to that in the blue post that was referenced in one of these threads.

They do say that “falsely reporting another player with the sole intent of restricting their gameplay is also unacceptable and will result in penalties to your account.”

Blizzard may very well notice a lot of reports from Johnny and his friends. The problem, though, lies in Blizzard having to prove that Johnny and friends are “falsely reporting another player with the sole intent of restricting their gameplay” and not just reporting another player for what they honestly felt was “spamming” or some other infraction.

IMO, there is too much grey in most cases to prove that Johnny and his friends were " “falsely reporting another player with the sole intent of restricting their gameplay” and actually take action against Johnny and his friends.

The argument that blizzard gm’s can’t properly enforce issues once they’re brought to their attention is not a compelling argument for going back to the pre right click reporting system.

I’ve never asked to go back to the “pre right click reporting system”. I only asked that that right click report be tied to an auto ignore and NOT an auto squelch.

That is effectively the old system it’s just slightly easier to create tickets the GM’s won’t act on, without the auto squelch the reports have no teeth just like reporting pre right click had no teeth.