False reporting and automated ban

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

still doesnt make it right. players shouldnt have punishment powers over other players simply put. it should be a gm only.

What you just said sounds MORE authoritarian. Well, if you could even relate authoritarianism to a video game.

(you can’t).

Even if you can a vote system is the exact opposite of authoritarian.

[Fesz-cenarius]

Putting them on Ignore isn’t a “non-solution”. They won’t get invited into my Groups, I won’t see their Posts, they won’t communicate with me through BNet Chat, so what’s the difference?

Other people will see their junk however which means I might see it indirectly. The squelch prevents that.

Unless you are standing behind that other player that “sees that junk”, how would you even indirectly see “that junk”?

[Celessi-turalyon]

Now on the other hand if the falsely accused could appeal and then get the lemmings and their commander banned for abuse of the system, and harassment… THEN I might be more amenable to the idea.

That isn’t the system we have at the present though.

They CAN. And if a guild abused it like that, they’d be punished. You just don’t hear about it because it doesn’t actually happen.

Or maybe Blizzard simply cannot prove that the guild leader Y and his guild abused the system to squelch player X because the reason for submitting the report is subjective.

Guild leader Y tells his guild to report player x for “spam”. Blizzard reviews the ticket and determines that player X was not “spamming”. They overturn the squelch.

Player X cannot ever get back the time and opportunities he lost due to that unwarranted squelch.

Even though Blizzard overturned the squelch, how do they prove that guild leader Y and his guild were submitting reports in order to squelch player X and not submitting those reports in good faith because they believed that player X was 'spamming"?

When they look at the chat log and see that he wasn’t, and see this group of people who reported him are all connected. Plus let’s be honest, that’s not going to be their first time doing that, so there’s a history.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Putting them on Ignore isn’t a “non-solution”. They won’t get invited into my Groups, I won’t see their Posts, they won’t communicate with me through BNet Chat, so what’s the difference?

Other people will see their junk however which means I might see it indirectly. The squelch prevents that.

Unless you are standing behind that other player that “sees that junk”, how would you even indirectly see “that junk”?

When someone reacts to it in some way, which is what the people trolling chat are going for in the first place.

[Fesz-cenarius]

Not burying my head in the sand, just refusing to give power over one player to another. I was in Classic and I saw many Guild Leaders set themselves up as glorified dons in the virtual world. You think I would ever support a measure that gave them the ability to impact the playtime of someone they despise, just because they have X number of lemmings who’ll report for them?

Sorry but no.

But, again, this isn’t a single player having the power to silence someone. It takes MULTIPLE players over a short amount of time for it to happen. The only way it’s realistically going to happen to you is if you’re actually spamming a chat channel or being disruptive. If you don’t act like an idiot, you have nothing to fear.

As noted previously, TWO PEOPLE are MULTIPLE PEOPLE.

I’m not saying that it only takes two to squelch another player, but we do not know how many people/reports it actually takes.

Is it 5 people/reports? Is it 10 people/reports? Is it 100 people/reports?

Can you say for certain how many people/reports are needed? If you think you can, please provide that Blizzard quote or source.

5 or even 10 people submitting reports is not that hard to coordinate.

Blizzard is apparently very close to the chest with their cards when comes to the details of how the auto squelch works.

Are you admitting that we don’t even know that it takes “many” people submitting reports to squelch another player? Are you admitting that the number could be as few as 5 or even 10 reports, which would be easy to coordinate?

If you choose to deny that the number could be as few as 5 or even 10, please provide an official Blizzard source providing the number of reports required to trigger that auto squelch.

[Fesz-cenarius]

5 or even 10 people submitting reports is not that hard to coordinate.

No, but coordinating it, since a GM WILL look into the reports, will just lead to them being banned instead. Nobody is going to put all that work into leveling just to lose their ability to play so that their random blue sells before yours does.

How deeply is Blizzard going to investigate those reports, especially if those reports have a “valid reason” for reporting tied to them?

[Celessi-turalyon]

Not burying my head in the sand, just refusing to give power over one player to another. I was in Classic and I saw many Guild Leaders set themselves up as glorified dons in the virtual world. You think I would ever support a measure that gave them the ability to impact the playtime of someone they despise, just because they have X number of lemmings who’ll report for them?

Sorry but no.

But, again, this isn’t a single player having the power to silence someone. It takes MULTIPLE players over a short amount of time for it to happen. The only way it’s realistically going to happen to you is if you’re actually spamming a chat channel or being disruptive. If you don’t act like an idiot, you have nothing to fear.

As noted previously, TWO PEOPLE are MULTIPLE PEOPLE.

I’m not saying that it only takes two to squelch another player, but we do not know how many people/reports it actually takes.

Is it 5 people/reports? Is it 10 people/reports? Is it 100 people/reports?

Can you say for certain how many people/reports are needed? If you think you can, please provide that Blizzard quote or source.

5 or even 10 people submitting reports is not that hard to coordinate.

Blizzard is apparently very close to the chest with their cards when comes to the details of how the auto squelch works.

Are you admitting that we don’t even know that it takes “many” people submitting reports to squelch another player? Are you admitting that the number could be as few as 5 or even 10 reports, which would be easy to coordinate?

If you choose to deny that the number could be as few as 5 or even 10, please provide an official Blizzard source providing the number of reports required to trigger that auto squelch.

You understand that as soon as there’s enough reports on a player it automatically triggers that a GM has to look into it, and that abusing the report is ban-able, right? Yeah, it’s easy to coordinate, but you will not have access to the game much longer.

5 or even 10 people submitting reports is not that hard to coordinate.

No, but coordinating it, since a GM WILL look into the reports, will just lead to them being banned instead. Nobody is going to put all that work into leveling just to lose their ability to play so that their random blue sells before yours does.

How deeply is Blizzard going to investigate those reports, especially if those reports have a “valid reason” for reporting tied to them?

It doesn’t have to be investigated that deeply. Did he offend, yes or no? No? Then those accounts that banned him are flagged.

[Xecks-stormrage (Xecks)]

still doesnt make it right. players shouldnt have punishment powers over other players simply put. it should be a gm only.

So are you proposing blizzard should do a better job themselves enforcing chat rules than they did pre right click reporting?

dont have my sleeping meds so im back.

im proposing they have the same right click report system just without the auto squelch. instead whatever number of reports would have triggered an auto squelch would instead trigger a gms notifications that a pressing issue needs to be adressed and make it priority.

that would pretty much eliminate the tickets to appeal and would get the action done sooner without punishing someone unjustly and would also be fast action taken to get someone who deserves a silence a silence.

and it would put the voracity of the claims to the test and allow for quick action to take for those abusing the system.

and it would solve the getting reported in a bg and dced into an auto squelch and being kicked out of the bg .

nothing but good things in my plan.

[Fesz-cenarius]

Now on the other hand if the falsely accused could appeal and then get the lemmings and their commander banned for abuse of the system, and harassment… THEN I might be more amenable to the idea.

That isn’t the system we have at the present though.

They CAN. And if a guild abused it like that, they’d be punished. You just don’t hear about it because it doesn’t actually happen.

Or maybe Blizzard simply cannot prove that the guild leader Y and his guild abused the system to squelch player X because the reason for submitting the report is subjective.

Guild leader Y tells his guild to report player x for “spam”. Blizzard reviews the ticket and determines that player X was not “spamming”. They overturn the squelch.

Player X cannot ever get back the time and opportunities he lost due to that unwarranted squelch.

Even though Blizzard overturned the squelch, how do they prove that guild leader Y and his guild were submitting reports in order to squelch player X and not submitting those reports in good faith because they believed that player X was 'spamming"?

When they look at the chat log and see that he wasn’t, and see this group of people who reported him are all connected. Plus let’s be honest, that’s not going to be their first time doing that, so there’s a history.

And that guild cannot possibly use alts that are not “connected” to submit those reports?

Do you honestly believe that Blizzard is going to check every one those accounts that submitted a report to see if any or all of those accounts are “connected” in some manner, such characters other than the reporting characters being in the same guild?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Not burying my head in the sand, just refusing to give power over one player to another. I was in Classic and I saw many Guild Leaders set themselves up as glorified dons in the virtual world. You think I would ever support a measure that gave them the ability to impact the playtime of someone they despise, just because they have X number of lemmings who’ll report for them?

Sorry but no.

But, again, this isn’t a single player having the power to silence someone. It takes MULTIPLE players over a short amount of time for it to happen. The only way it’s realistically going to happen to you is if you’re actually spamming a chat channel or being disruptive. If you don’t act like an idiot, you have nothing to fear.

As noted previously, TWO PEOPLE are MULTIPLE PEOPLE.

I’m not saying that it only takes two to squelch another player, but we do not know how many people/reports it actually takes.

Is it 5 people/reports? Is it 10 people/reports? Is it 100 people/reports?

Can you say for certain how many people/reports are needed? If you think you can, please provide that Blizzard quote or source.

5 or even 10 people submitting reports is not that hard to coordinate.

Blizzard is apparently very close to the chest with their cards when comes to the details of how the auto squelch works.

Are you admitting that we don’t even know that it takes “many” people submitting reports to squelch another player? Are you admitting that the number could be as few as 5 or even 10 reports, which would be easy to coordinate?

If you choose to deny that the number could be as few as 5 or even 10, please provide an official Blizzard source providing the number of reports required to trigger that auto squelch.

If you are saying it’s as few as 5 or 10 please provide a statement from blizzard confirming that

All I can say is that most of the people silenced who complain about it definitely had their silence coming.

[Mellga-area-52 (Mellga)]

All I can say is that most of the people silenced who complain about it definitely had their silence coming.

According to you.

[Xecks-stormrage (Xecks)]

According to you.

ziryus isnt someone you should respond to or even acknowledge he exists. too much headache.

Edit: i made the mistake of not only quoting him but also responding.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

All I can say is that most of the people silenced who complain about it definitely had their silence coming.

According to you.

/shrug well how many of those had their squelches lifted?

[Mellga-area-52 (Mellga)]

ziryus isnt someone you should respond to or even acknowledge he exists. too much headache.

I’m starting to like him, now that IK how he posts

/shrug well how many of those had their squelches lifted?

I’ve appealed a lot of mine

[Fesz-cenarius]

You understand that as soon as there’s enough reports on a player it automatically triggers that a GM has to look into it, and that abusing the report is ban-able, right? Yeah, it’s easy to coordinate, but you will not have access to the game much longer.

Proving abuse is not as easy as you apparently think it is. It’s not just a case of “this really isn’t spam, so we’ll over turn that squelch and silence everyone that reported him”.

Even Blizzard admits that “spam” is subjective (in the eye of the beholder).

It doesn’t have to be investigated that deeply. Did he offend, yes or no? No? Then those accounts that banned him are flagged.

Are you saying that you honestly believe that every time Blizzard overturns a squelch they punish every account that reported the squelched player?

Are you saying that you honestly believe that in Classic if a squelch is overturned that every person that reported the squelched player should be punished?

I cannot think of a much more effective deterrent to reporting other players than being punished by Blizzard if you ever submit a report that is overturned or determined to not be a violation.

"I think Johnny is ‘spamming’, but there is no way I am reporting him. I’m not risking my account being silenced or suspended if Blizzard thinks he isn’t ‘spamming’. I’ll let someone else report him and risk their account. "

[Celessi-turalyon]

You understand that as soon as there’s enough reports on a player it automatically triggers that a GM has to look into it, and that abusing the report is ban-able, right? Yeah, it’s easy to coordinate, but you will not have access to the game much longer.

Proving abuse is not as easy as you apparently think it is. It’s not just a case of “this really isn’t spam, so we’ll over turn that squelch and silence everyone that reported him”.

Even Blizzard admits that “spam” is subjective (in the eye of the beholder).

It doesn’t have to be investigated that deeply. Did he offend, yes or no? No? Then those accounts that banned him are flagged.

Are you saying that you honestly believe that every time Blizzard overturns a squelch they punish every account that reported the squelched player?

Are you saying that you honestly believe that in Classic if a squelch is overturned that every person that reported the squelched player should be punished?

I cannot think of a much more effective deterrent to reporting other players than being punished by Blizzard if you ever submit a report that is overturned or determined to not be a violation.

"I think Johnny is ‘spamming’, but there is no way I am reporting him. I’m not risking my account being silenced or suspended if Blizzard thinks he isn’t ‘spamming’. I’ll let someone else report him and risk their account. "

Why does WoW currently completely prove you wrong?

[Mellga-area-52 (Mellga)]

Why does WoW currently completely prove you wrong?

It doesn’t. Retail WoW operates a little bit differently than Classic WoW. Yet, nobody has answered this Question (it just keeps getting dodged):

How can a Silenced Player help out people looking to fill their Group, for Dungeons, if they cannot speak in the Public Chat, engage in Whispers nor utilize their BNet Chats?

[Fesz-cenarius]

Not burying my head in the sand, just refusing to give power over one player to another. I was in Classic and I saw many Guild Leaders set themselves up as glorified dons in the virtual world. You think I would ever support a measure that gave them the ability to impact the playtime of someone they despise, just because they have X number of lemmings who’ll report for them?

Sorry but no.

But, again, this isn’t a single player having the power to silence someone. It takes MULTIPLE players over a short amount of time for it to happen. The only way it’s realistically going to happen to you is if you’re actually spamming a chat channel or being disruptive. If you don’t act like an idiot, you have nothing to fear.

As noted previously, TWO PEOPLE are MULTIPLE PEOPLE.

I’m not saying that it only takes two to squelch another player, but we do not know how many people/reports it actually takes.

Is it 5 people/reports? Is it 10 people/reports? Is it 100 people/reports?

Can you say for certain how many people/reports are needed? If you think you can, please provide that Blizzard quote or source.

5 or even 10 people submitting reports is not that hard to coordinate.

Blizzard is apparently very close to the chest with their cards when comes to the details of how the auto squelch works.

Are you admitting that we don’t even know that it takes “many” people submitting reports to squelch another player? Are you admitting that the number could be as few as 5 or even 10 reports, which would be easy to coordinate?

If you choose to deny that the number could be as few as 5 or even 10, please provide an official Blizzard source providing the number of reports required to trigger that auto squelch.

If you are saying it’s as few as 5 or 10 please provide a statement from blizzard confirming that

All I can say is that most of the people silenced who complain about it definitely had their silence coming.

I don’t recall ever saying that it is a few as 5 or 10.

I said that in the absence of confirmation from Blizzard of the number required , it could be as few as 5 or 10. We do NOT know how many are required. That is the point.

[Fesz-cenarius]

You understand that as soon as there’s enough reports on a player it automatically triggers that a GM has to look into it, and that abusing the report is ban-able, right? Yeah, it’s easy to coordinate, but you will not have access to the game much longer.

Proving abuse is not as easy as you apparently think it is. It’s not just a case of “this really isn’t spam, so we’ll over turn that squelch and silence everyone that reported him”.

Even Blizzard admits that “spam” is subjective (in the eye of the beholder).

It doesn’t have to be investigated that deeply. Did he offend, yes or no? No? Then those accounts that banned him are flagged.

Are you saying that you honestly believe that every time Blizzard overturns a squelch they punish every account that reported the squelched player?

Are you saying that you honestly believe that in Classic if a squelch is overturned that every person that reported the squelched player should be punished?

I cannot think of a much more effective deterrent to reporting other players than being punished by Blizzard if you ever submit a report that is overturned or determined to not be a violation.

"I think Johnny is ‘spamming’, but there is no way I am reporting him. I’m not risking my account being silenced or suspended if Blizzard thinks he isn’t ‘spamming’. I’ll let someone else report him and risk their account. "

Why does WoW currently completely prove you wrong?

How exactly does “WoW currently prove me wrong”?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

I’ve appealed a lot of mine

Successfully? And if so how many of those were you certain would have the squelch revoked?