False reporting and automated ban

[anon44207803]

And I wouldn’t mind an in-game meeting. When do you want it to occur?

Make an L1 on Amanthul and whisper me. Easiest way.

[Mellga-area-52 (Mellga)]

Make an L1 on Amanthul and whisper me. Easiest way.

I hope you can detect that it’s me

An open invitation like this does warrant a small amount of trolls

[anon44207803]

Wont be an issue.

[Mellga-area-52 (Mellga)]

Wont be an issue.

The Forums have done it, again. I always make friends (or at least people don’t hate me, for me) over disagreements

This is why I keep coming here, despite everything else. Pleasure Aehl.

[anon44207803]

And me too.

Look…I drive my MOTHER up the wall…so what chance do you have??

I dont hate anyone. Ever.

It isnt in my nature and I hope will never be.

[Mellga-area-52 (Mellga)]

And me too.

Look…I drive my MOTHER up the wall…so what chance do you have??

I NEVER try, that’s the thing!

EDIT:

I dont hate anyone. Ever.

It isnt in my nature and I hope will never be.

Same, just misunderstanding ;p

[Åpocalypse-illidan (Åpocalypse)]

@anon44207803

I dont have an issue with the system as it stands.

Then actually answer these questions with STRAIGHT answers instead of constant deflections:

1. You find no issue with innocent players being punished by other players with automated squelch, who’s cases are then GM reviewed and cleared of all wrongdoing?

2. You find no issue with the potential for players abusing the system, whether they do it in good faith or not?

3. Why exactly are you opposed to the proposed compromise of the player driven squelch being removed, but GM penalties doubled?

4. Why are YOU, a player who started in 2010, remotely qualified to give or even have an opinion about the interactions of player driven squelch system and it’s implications in a vanilla closed realm environment? It’s literally an environment you don’t know and have never seen function in game.

@Åpocalypse-illidan

Now let’s look at a vanilla example… A friend of mine, and a server legend on Stonemaul in vanilla, who ended up passing IRL in Cata: The Shadowpriest Booms.

Booms’s method of making himself (in)famous in vanilla was by becoming the Pirate king of Menethil. He was a Horde Shadowpriest in one of the most accomplished guilds, spent most of his free time sitting on the menethil boat, next to his secondary account’s alliance character named Boomsbot.

Boomsbot’s job was simple… Everyone who wanted to take the boat, had to pay his alliance character a toll, or walk the plank (he spoke in pirate speak the entire time)… He was successful enough at this, for it to allegedly become his primary form of in game gold farming. If you didn’t pay, you got MCd off the boat into fatigue waters until you did. He was ruthless at this…

and he was a LEGEND on the server because of it… He had friends in numerous top horde guilds who would come join in on the fun/get his back if alliance tried to group to take him down, but for the most part he simply became a fixture of every day life for the Alliance there…

I want to be very clear about this… Booms did nothing wrong, and was never once banned for these actions, in fact, Booms was CELEBRATED by both the Stonemaul community in general, and even by Blizzard itself, when he was immortalized as an NPC after his IRL death. https://www.wowhead.com/npc=68985/booms

Now put this same exact situation in the modern right click report/squelch system… Every person Boomsbot talked to probably right clicks his name and reports… It doesn’t matter one damn bit that this is a player that Blizzard themselves celebrate in memorial in game… He’s getting squelched.

He’s now being punished for doing nothing wrong with constant squelches. Moreover, to your assertion that the people reporting him would get banned for causing an inappropriate squelch… ask yourself if they really would? Most of the people reporting him might have even thought that they where doing the right thing in reporting his behavior. Are they punished for trying to use the system honestly? Now what if some people just see him there and spam report him because they don’t like him… How can you possibly differentiate between the reports made in good faith and the reports made in bad faith. Just how much GM time are you now requiring for each and every report to determine intent?

The only response to this that your side has yet to come up with is “squelch him until GMs get so tired of squelching him that they make him immune to reports”…

How is that a valid solution? Does your side of the argument really believe the problem will be fixed if you give griefers blanket squelch/GM review immunity??? Because I can already tell you how that’s going to work out. Moreover, what of the people who report him… HOW do you filter reports made in good faith, vs those made in bad faith to issue punishments for those “abusing the system”??

The vanilla, and authentic answer to the booms problem was basically “report it to a GM” and the GM will tell you that “there’s a PvP solution to the problem” (so go pound sand)…

Punishing that player in any fashion with automated squelch systems is entirely not in line with Blizzard’s policy or in any way authentic to Vanilla wow.

[anon44207803]

1. You find no issue with innocent players being punished by other players with automated squelch, who’s cases are then GM reviewed and cleared of all wrongdoing?

As yet, and Ill be blunt, I havent seen this doomsday scenario, which , might add, was all the rage on the forums when the system was brought in. I tend not to listen to doomsayers, panic mongers or fear merchants.

2. You find no issue with the potential for players abusing the system, whether they do it in good faith or not?

Hasnt happened so far.

3. Why exactly are you opposed to the proposed compromise of the player driven squelch being removed, but GM penalties doubled?

Asked and answered.

4. Why are YOU, a player who started in 2010, remotely qualified to give or even have an opinion about the interactions of player driven squelch system and it’s implications in a vanilla closed realm environment? It’s literally an environment you don’t know and have never seen function in game.

I started in WOW in 2010. My experience with said systems goes back to probably before you were even born.

I started gaming in the 80’s. Ive seen and learned a great deal in that time, have been involved in all including MUCKS,. MUDS, ASCII based games with systems like WOW’s…and other projects I am not at liberty to discuss.

Suffice it to say I know far more than you may realise.

When I started in WOW is irrelevant.

The systems you are discussing had their evolution over the last forty years…and I have seen them up close over that time, more than once as an alpha or beta tester…and in other roles which, again, I cannot discuss.

Why cant I talk about them?

Either a current NDA…or in a few cases where I have been asked as a courtesy to maintain the condtions of said NDA as an act of goodwill.

So, with respect, my experience is far wider than you may know.

[Mellga-area-52 (Mellga)]

Hasnt happened so far.

I explained my story, though Aehl, and you didn’t address it

[Impreza-gorgonnash (Impreza)]

A very common scenario that will unfold is actually pretty funny, in the sad ironic sense of how very little foresight exists of what will be very commonality and the defense of ill-equipped pundits defending it.

Leeroy finds himself squelched for one reason or another (valid or committed via fraud, doesn’t matter) but he decides he’ll just stay logged in and do about all he can do solo, which is pretty much relegated to farming mats. Leeroy comes across another player (Jenkins) who pleasantly asks him to move to another spot on the map. Of course since Leeroy is squelched, not only can he not reply but he can’t see the message from Jenkins to begin with. After some minutes of continued competition with Leeroy, Jenkins becomes annoyed by Leeroy’s continued disregard and silence. Jenkins believes he’s dealing with an account or character that is used in Chinese gold farming operations and so he issues a report and has his friends collectively add to it.

Does Leeroy receive extended time squelched? Does his punishment bump up in severity from a squelch to a suspension or ban? Who knows.

This isn’t an appeal, just a sad observance with at minimum required an elementary understanding of human behavior, placed in the Vanilla game world, forged by the experience of having been there in 2004 and seeing it all before. The only difference between now and then is Blizzard didn’t hand over keys and alcohol to proverbial pre-teens.

Until you see how much crying will occur in /1 or /3 about being ganked or ninja looted (neither of which are against any rules obviously) you’ll quickly see how quick the aggrievied parties will seek retribution in the form of fraudulent reporting. People used to submit tickets trying to get a ganker punished, formulating all sorts of false stories of how they were being griefed wah wah wah in hopes that Blizzard would side with their pity party. What do you think they’ll do when they have the power to issue punishment themselves because now they have the power to dole it out through automation, backed by a system that assumes guilty until proven innocent.

[Åpocalypse-illidan (Åpocalypse)]

As yet, and Ill be blunt, I havent seen this doomsday scenario, which , might add, was all the rage on the forums when the system was brought in. I tend not to listen to doomsayers, panic mongers or fear merchants.

That isn’t what I asked… I don’t care if you’ve seen it or not. I asked if you where ok with it happening (because it does happen, I’ve personally seen it)

Hasnt happened so far.

Another attempt at a deflection rather than an answer.
Yes. It has, done, and will… There’s a fairly easy to read example of it in the post you are responding to.

Asked and answered.

Shocking… ANOTHER deflection…
No, you haven’t. Quote yourself if you believe differently.

I started in WOW in 2010.

Yes, I know that part, you frequently go on about how started well past vanilla’s timeline and then claim to speak with authority on systems you didn’t experience.

My experience with said systems goes back to probably before you were even born.

reported for trolling (again)

I started gaming in the 80’s.

Irrelevant, but for the record, I did as well.

When I started in WOW is irrelevant.

So you don’t actually have experience with vanilla wow, or it’s systems then? You spent a significant amount of words for what amounted to a very long winded and totally surprising deflection yet again.

So let’s clear this up, for the record… I asked you 5 questions, you didn’t answer a single one of the first 4, and blatantly ignored question 5, and yet you still want to be considered anything BUT a troll on these forums…

Question 6… How exactly are you NOT trolling?

[anon44207803]

Question 6… How exactly are you NOT trolling?

Disagreeing with you is not trolling.

[Åpocalypse-illidan (Åpocalypse)]

Disagreeing with you is not trolling.

Then ANSWER THE QUESTIONS INSTEAD OF DEFLECTING.

You have a position, at least have the courage to attempt to defend it. You don’t get to deny the existence of reality and call that an answer.

[anon44207803]

sigh

Point me to the post amongst this forest and Ill have a look at it.

[anon44207803]

Then ANSWER THE QUESTIONS INSTEAD OF DEFLECTING.

Ive read through your questions.

By the way this:

4. Why are YOU, a player who started in 2010, remotely qualified to give or even have an opinion about the interactions of player driven squelch system and it’s implications in a vanilla closed realm environment? It’s literally an environment you don’t know and have never seen function in game.

Vanilla or no, the systems and principles are the same

As I said before, the systems you see in operation have evolved over time, and Ive seen how they work and why. Vanilla is an environment, I grant you, but the basic principles and purposes are pretty much universal.

No, you haven’t. Quote yourself if you believe differently.

See my answer to Fesz. I said it was a good idea, whether it was doable ot not was another story.

And lastly, with respect, I do not need to be “qualified” to discuss the matter. These forums are for all to discuss anything at will.

[Åpocalypse-illidan (Åpocalypse)]

Ive read through your questions.

And still you remain unable to actually answer them, without deflecting, blatantly denying the existence of reality, or addressing them.

Again… useless forum troll.

And lastly, with respect, I do not need to be “qualified” to discuss the matter. These forums are for all to discuss anything at will.

And, with respect, the entirety of your claimed experience is vague and questionable at best, conveniently hidden behind alleged NDAs that for some reason lasted well past (decades even) game releases or even beta stages. Furthermore, it does also call into question your attitude and attempts to speak as though you where an authority on a subject. People can decide for themselves from there whether your credibility is of any value. I am decidedly skeptical.

See my answer to Fesz. I said it was a good idea, whether it was doable ot not was another story.

I’m not digging through 2215 posts of back and forth whereupon you might have responded to Fesz once about my idea, in order to confirm this, but I will at least accept this as you answering 1 of the 5 questions… You’re now up 2 of the 5 questions being answered, counting your admissions that you don’t actually have any vanilla experience.

That leaves 3 more questions to answer. Still waiting.

[Mellga-area-52 (Mellga)]

sigh

Point me to the post amongst this forest and Ill have a look at it.

Both these posters said the word, in some form, that I got reported for:

If you say the N word in your enchant selling macro, it doesn’t matter if someone reported you for undercutting them. You opened yourself up to be validly flagged by breaking the rules.

I will not disagree with that.

I don’t recall saying that someone using the “N” word should not be reported.

However, what would I be guilty of if I simply said:

“Selling X service (the same service that Johnny is selling) for 10G (5G less than Johnny is asking)”

And I told my story:

'Cause, basically I “said” it but not really. I never typed it, officially nor phrased it, the way these posters did here.

EDIT: And I didn’t spell it out, either.

EDIT 2: I said “it rhymes with (insert word that rhymes with said word)”.

EDIT 3: It’s one of Winnie the Pooh’s friends. That’s all I can say. 'Cause apparently his name triggering

And I expressed the context:

I never said it, and I, actually don’t use it in my every day vocabulary either.

EDIT: I was using it, as an example of my distaste towards the Classic community separating us between “Tourist” and “Purist”. That was the context.

As I told Studmuffyn, who hates the word as much as I do:

Absolutely agree. It’s a disgusting word. Same with “Tourist” and “Purist”. Disgusting.

So, I was unable to post on the forums, after I made that post. I did appeal it because Context. I wasn’t Silenced for long, but that’s irrelevant because it still happened. I guess I can’t even equate the word 'cause of how I feel about calling everybody by certain names

[anon44207803]

EDIT 2: I said “it rhymes with (insert word that rhymes with said word)”.

EDIT 3: It’s one of Winnie the Pooh’s friends. That’s all I can say. 'Cause apparently his name triggering

Yeah. Um,. not being critical, but thats sorta on the line…I would not report that but Id be remiss if I didnt say you might want to rephrase that in future…

And yeah, Ouch.

[Impreza-gorgonnash (Impreza)]

Then ANSWER THE QUESTIONS INSTEAD OF DEFLECTING.

Ive read through your questions.

By the way this:

4. Why are YOU, a player who started in 2010, remotely qualified to give or even have an opinion about the interactions of player driven squelch system and it’s implications in a vanilla closed realm environment? It’s literally an environment you don’t know and have never seen function in game.

Vanilla or no, the systems and principles are the same

As I said before, the systems you see in operation have evolved over time, and Ive seen how they work and why. Vanilla is an environment, I grant you, but the basic principles and purposes are pretty much universal.

Your experience is arm-chair level, at best, in relation to WoW and Vanilla/Classic specifically.

It’s akin to living in an insulated state and you’ve done some reading maybe met someone who has lived in a border state while holding strong opinions of illegal immigration, all the while having never experienced first hand the day to day issues that border state residents deal with.

Or alternatively, having served in the military and chalking up your experience as tough and hard-earned just like the rest of the guys while having never served in a war zone.

The point comes down to nothing short of this. You. Weren’t. There.

That doesn’t mean your opinion is totally invalid, but when people who WERE there tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about, it doesn’t matter what you think your other similar experiences were (MUDs, really? lol) you don’t even have the baseline to draw any relevant distinction other than just being games, having worn a uniform, or knew someone who lived in Texas.

Just as if a person who had only played EQ or UO and never played Vanilla, their experience in those games are not equitable to Vanilla and the environment that existed there. They can only theorize at best, and their ideas on the matter really do play second fiddle to those with actual experience.

[Mellga-area-52 (Mellga)]

Yeah. Um,. not being critical, but thats sorta on the line…I would not report that but Id be remiss if I didnt say you might want to rephrase that in future…

And yeah, Ouch.

IK that but like I said, I don’t use that word, in my everyday vocabulary, yet those two Posters said it, and IDK what happened to Missuspowpow, but I see Fesz is still posting around (maybe they got reported and appealed it, IDK). So, I’m concerned about the Auto-Squelch because I’m not seeing consistency, here when others are saying it.

And IK, that’s why I had to be careful when telling my story to avoid the drama, again.