Faction Populations: A Gravity Problem (Why Alliance aren't mad about fast Horde queues)

While I understand your point, this is extremely disingenuous. I get that you might not, but from the people I have seen there is a clear level of disdain for the Horde to a degree that goes far beyond simple faction balance issues.

Faction balance is important, but some of the following things I have seen to justify the “queue times” situation without actually talking in depth about the problem lead me to believe that a fair amount of Alliance players on the forums just want to vent and yell at Horde:

“You caused this, so you should suffer the consequences” (Ignoring that the vast majority of Horde already existed before TBC, many from the start of Classic)

“Horde just camp summoning stones all the time!” (Which is a function of PVP servers, regardless of faction imbalance)

“Horde are all just Undead fotm rerollers for racials and they suck” (Ignoring that players pick factions and races for a variety of reasons.

Yes faction imbalance on PVP servers can be a problem. Even if the entire population was even, servers could still be WILDLY imbalanced. There’s a lot more moving parts to this situation, and for 15 years Blizzard tried and failed to maintain balance.

TBC Classic is not going to have the major influx of players over the life of the game that original TBC did. We’re basically at what we can expect to reasonably be peak, and it only ebbs and flows from here.

There’s far too much involved in trying to massage not only total faction numbers across all servers, but individual server faction numbers to be of significant value to addressing the issue.

We have TWO problems then, not one, since one issue cannot be solved simply without either changing the fundamental core balance of the game or trying to slowly and deliberately affect change on individual players through incentives. The latter process takes A LARGE function of time, and trying to use the queue times to force that change is more than likely going to lead to player losses rather than player rerolls, even if we added free faction changes on targeted servers.

It’s not like they can’t do BOTH solutions. Because they can. But the Alliance players want to use the negative Horde queue times to force players to take faction changes or leave the game. Which is a terrible solution.

I mean we’ve seen this line of thinking in action during Classic. Overpopulated mega servers were unbearable to play on. They offered free server transfers for affected realms. It worked at first, because it was before most people had any character investment or social interaction with their servers. But now we’re two years in for most players, having put in Classic and now moved to TBC. The same solution, targeted server transfers was opened up. And the movement was minimal at best. Most servers did not significantly have affected change from the free transfers.

In fact, my realm Anathema, saw more PAID transfers off realm than free transfers on realm. It was much easier for affected players to abandon our realm, due to not having their investment anymore, than for players on existing servers to come supplement ours and leave their location behind. The free realm transfer didn’t work, and it’s unlikely the faction changes would have either.

Alliance would have praised the change, Horde would have hated it, a handful of people would take it, queue times would stay high or even get longer potentially, and a month later we would see people dropping like flies.

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We already saw a change in the queue times with 9.1 release and like Amideus mention… with more time more people will stop playing for whatever reasons. Lets hope its more horde then alliance.

If people think waiting for Wrath will swing the faction balance. I would like to sale you some land in a prime location. (I lie the location isnt prime).

not my problem

not my problem

wrong

nah. I’ll take horde v horde bgs

not my problem

so wrong. Factions became a meme once TBC came out. They are irrelevant and horribly bad game design. They should be removed from the game but barring that horde v horde bgs are good enough. if it destroys the alliance faction who cares

it’s a 10% difference with horde on top.
quit the lies.
even retail isn’t all horde like y’all keep claiming classic will turn out.
the sky isn’t falling.

Do you realize that 60%-40% balance on PvP servers mean that there are 3 Horde for every 2 Alliance?

In other words, there are 50% more Horde than Alliance.

and do you realize it’s 100% instanced, meaning there could only be 20 ally, but every bg will still always be filled, except av?

???

The issue is way bigger than just filling up BGs.

The population balance of factions affects guild recruitment, finding dungeon groups, forming BG premades, forming arena teams, server economy…

I realize that you are horde so queue times are literally the only thing in the world that you care about right now, but there is a tremendous amount more than that at stake.

Please make a real effort to actually read and understand the thread next time before you comment.

This seems right up there with all the players who just loved warriors and rogues during classic.

i’ll stop you right there so you won’t make a “donkey” out of yourself- i play both factions… raiding, pvping, and running around in open world.

Good then you should understand that having balanced populations is important, rather than letting Alliance turn into a dead faction where nobody wants to roll, and finding groups or recruiting for guilds or PvP teams is difficult.

i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt about not reading other posts besides this one.

in others, i’ve given honest feedback, even suggestions, into making the game-especially the pvp aspect, better for all sides.

these crybabies you see here are the ones upset over losing their one “advantage” they had over the other side. if you honestly need advantages to play a game, i don’t know what to tell them besides “go ahead and leave. the game will overall be a better place without your type.”

All of this honestly

This just in, Alliance also pay for their subs. So using the argument “I am a paying customer therefore I shouldn’t have to deal with this disadvantage to playing my faction” just means you don’t seem to understand the Alliance side of the issue or you don’t want to

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Yeah but the Alliance aren’t waiting an hour to get into a BG match. Their complaints are shallow, at best.

Ok, let’s clear something up here. This is an INCORRECT way of describing the problem. Because no, not all the PVP servers are 60-40 Horde over Alliance. Some are 50/50, some are 54/46. There are several that are very close, and then there are some that are wildly imbalanced. That’s why it is EXTREMELY important to separate the queue times from the PVP server balance argument. Because not all servers are made equally.

It’s very important to recognize that, overall, there are Horde and Alliance dominated PVP servers. Both Factions have servers where they are on top. BUT the raw number of Horde is higher than the Alliance. For instance:

Incendus and Felstriker are two 100% Alliance PVP servers, they have 1040 and 129 populations respectively.

Skeram and Kirtonos are 100% Horde PVP servers, and they have 2531 and 1488.

Now, both these servers have the same PERCENTAGE imbalance, but the raw numbers of players is causing the queue times across all servers to be higher. But we don’t talk about that, all the Alliance does is complain that they personally are at a disadvantage in PVP on their server, but they refuse to notice that every single server is different.

This is the core of the problem. This wasn’t really made to be a PvP game. So many problems in this game have come from them trying to shoehorn competitive PvP stuff into a game that was never designed for it. The game would have been much better off if they hadn’t attached high level rewards to PvP.

I actually respect you for stating what I’m sure a lot of your fellow Horde really feel.

True. It’s about 2/3 Horde. Most of the top arena teams are Horde. Virtually all of the top guilds are Horde. But, yes, Alliance still technically exist.

I play both factions, I’m just stating facts that factions are a meme

they could unflag the alliance factions and call it a day and the game wouldn’t change

That’s why nobody really does it anymore. Or, if they do, they have three factions. Two factions leads to, well, where we are now.

Top Arena team demographics tend to roughly mirror the population demographics. Which is normal. It’s not that Horde has advantages, it’s just that there’s more Horde.

If we expect the same percentage of players on both side to be top tier PVP players, well then there would be less Alliance representation in the top tier because there are less Alliance by raw numbers.