Faction Populations: A Gravity Problem (Why Alliance aren't mad about fast Horde queues)

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
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I keep seeing Horde repeating the same (tremendously, exceptionally stupid) straw man argument over and over and over again, so I’m here to set the record straight:

Nobody on Alliance cares that Horde can get Honor faster now and have a shorter queue time. That is not why Alliance players are upset.

The issue is that Horde already has a much larger population for PvP than Alliance does. This population imbalance is the root cause problem of one Horde symptom, BG queue times, and several Alliance symptoms such as:

  • Smaller population of skilled PvP players to form Arena teams with
  • Drain of players from Alliance to Horde
  • Most PvP friends from retail and previous expansions already on Horde
  • Lower win rate in BGs due to more skilled and tryhard players being concentrated on Horde
  • Lack of balanced population PvP servers where WPvP can thrive
  • Difficulty recruiting for raiding guilds on the underrepresented faction on PvP servers
  • Screwed up server economy on the underrepresented faction on PvP servers

The so-called “solution” of allowing Horde vs. Horde BGs doesn’t actually solve the root cause problem, in fact it only treats a single symptom (the one that affects Horde) while making the root cause problem and all Alliance symptoms even worse.

In short, the reason Alliance are upset is that top Alliance PvP players are already talking about switching to Horde where they will find a larger pool of potential teammates. This has a trickle down effect as more people will follow their friends, win-loss rate for Alliance BGs will get even worse as the players capable of carrying leave, causing even more people to leave Alliance, until the population problem even snowballs into server economies and PvE raiding guild recruitment.

This is a gravity problem, where the larger the difference in populations becomes, the more pressure there is on people to move from the underpopulated faction to the overpopulated faction. The only way to solve this kind of gravity well problem is by actively counterbalancing the effects of gravity, NOT by removing one of its few impediments.

I understand Horde frustration with the queue times for BGs. Something needs to be done about it. But this isn’t the right way to go about it. Here are some better alternatives:

  • Extra free level boost that doesn’t count against the one per account limit, usable only on the underrepresented faction on PvP servers.
  • Free faction transfers, only in the direction that balances PvP server population. (for example, not to Heartseeker Alliance, but Heartseeker Horde would be fine – only to servers that actually need it)
  • Pet, Mount, or Tabard for players who use the boost or transfer to even out factions.
  • Bonus to XP, Honor, Gold, or Reputation while playing on the underrepresented faction on a PvP server.

Factions and the faction conflict are a core theme of this game, and a healthy balance of factions is crucial for its success – an idea that Blizzard evidently understood and recognized going into TBC launch. Blizzard should avoid treating symptoms in a way that further degrades the balance of faction populations, and should instead provide greater incentives (counterbalancing gravity) for players to balance out the factions.

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Spot-on post my dude. I really do hope that for the sake of Alliance on PvP realms they remove the same-faction queueing and try everything else first. If season 2 is upon us and free faction transfers combined with further incentives (if necessary) still leave Horde with unacceptably long queues then go for it, but to do it as a first option is insane. I’m the farthest thing from a nochanger (and am Alliance but on a PvE server so will not be personally affected by this if they don’t implement cross-realm) but this is just a negative change for the game as a whole and directly sacrifices the playability of one community for that of another which is a really horrific design philosophy.

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Excellent post. It will fly right over the heads of everybody that needs to understand it.

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Hey look a well typed out post that actually sums up the issue well.

Now watch the Horde crew either ignore the thread entirely and continue to spam HOW DOES DIS EVEN AFFECT U? in other threads or just come in and troll with “lol reroll or quit” comments

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Both sides understand the other perspective. The thing is, there is no way to quickly balance the factions, and they couldn’t let queue times stay at over an hour for months while they tried to incentivize transfers

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There is one plus side to horde v horde bg’s. People will either quit altogether or they’ll level again on horde. I’ve already seen a ton of new hordies leveling and it’s nice to see people in the world again that boosts destroyed.

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That’s because very few people in this extremely toxic community truly care about the health of the game. Selfish and short-sighted gain is the name of the game. Consequences be damned.

Mob rule is dangerous y’all.

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I boosted my Horde reroll.

lol

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You’ tried real hard, but like many, you’re making the same mistake many other people are making.

There isn’t a singular problem in play here. There are multiple problems and many people, you included, want to lump them all together and talk about them in away that’s both ignorant and disingenuous to the reality of what’s happening. The fact of the matter is really quite simple.

A vast majority of the people who play the game don’t actually enjoy world pvp. Before classic first came out and large portion of the community went around telling people that pvp servers was the authentic experience. This mislead many people to play on realms they didn’t like or enjoy. Many of them quit or left the server.

There is no solution for this problem. Players don’t enjoy world pvp. They do not want balanced factions. The few people left on pvp realms who are out numbered are foolish to believe any solution is possible. Blizzard cannot make people play the game in a way they don’t want to play it.

Players who expect faction balance so they enjoy their server are wasting their time. The players asking for this just don’t want to play on PVP servers to begin with and haven’t realized it yet. Anyone who asks for “fair play” in world pvp is just naive about the nature of the game and the nature of the player base. There is no solution to this problem that is practical.

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Excellent post. Really gets to the heart of it while brushing past the nonsense.

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I wonder how long it will take for horde to flag the OPs post? :grin:

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The PvP Crowd Imbalance has symptoms on both sides of the coin, but the BG change only treats the symptoms on one side of it. There are still symptoms on the Alliance side, they come from the same root cause but manifest differently. The BG change sweeps the symptoms under the rug for one side while the wound still festers underneath.

As WoW is greater than the sum of its parts, any possible negative or detriment to either the Alliance or Horde will have an impact on the other.

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To all the horde that want to understand what we as alliance face on a daily basis read the OP

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Think about it for a second, with this move, the Horde don’t need the alliance for anything anymore. The Horde have now become an exclusive gated community. They can now progress through all facets of the game playing only among themselves.

Might as well not even have factions anymore, just make it one server community.
Let Alliance and Horde fight on the same teams in BG’s and arenas.
Let Alliance and Horde join the same guilds and visit all cities.

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Good post, gonna fall on deaf ears ofc.

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It’s been said a thousand times, but there is no fix. Horde was always going to be the dominant faction. I find it hard to believe that alliance players only went alliance for faster que times. You must have known that it wasn’t going to keep going like this.

You just can’t force players to choose alliance nor can you put some cap per faction on each server. New players wouldn’t be able to join with friends and guilds. I’m sure that Blizzard can bring back layering, but that’s all they can do.

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Are people really going to change factions because of some free cash store crap? I doubt it.

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Horde players seem to legitimately not understand the topic. The amount of people who think that throwing “just reroll” back in the face of Alliance players is some kinda “gotcha!” moment is proof of that. They fundamentally do not understand the factors at play for whatever reason.

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There’s plenty of practical solutions.

The real issue is some irrational impression by these posters that they’re “Horde” or “Alliance” players. I suspect the vast majority of people don’t care what actual faction they’re on. The rolled it because some friend or favorite streamer was on it; or there was some in-game benefit to it. Check all the guides on “best racials/best class” for TBC, and it does nothing but gush about Horde.

The simple fix is, either nerf the heck out of all the horde bennies or buff the alliance ones, then put free transfers in and let it work itself out. If balance is still bad, keep nerfing/buffing every week till it balances out. People like playing what it easy. they flock to the dominant faction because it’s easy. You make it less easy, they don’t flock.

It’s imminently practical. It also involves some actual effort on Blizzards part; so they will not do it. It also involves Blizzard actively pushing back on this new “whinge till I get what I want” sentiment in the WoW community.

Blizzard got in this mess because they made sweeping changes between classic/TBC and then it got locked in due to the sillyness of how Classic patch revisions work. The ‘fix’ to it is more sweeping changes; with the benefit of 13 years of hindsight to make them.

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