Thats not saying the same thing we’re talking about.
Tanks are pulling stuff, but they aren’t immortal without healers (usually.)
Maybe the rare exception.
But many tanks are bad, and they die even when they’re expected to live.
There’s drastic skill disparity.
Currently, I’m enjoying that tanks can’t solo the boss from 50% to dead. Although, if I were to raise something as possible, first boss in City of Threads.
It is.
Youre talking about the go go pull everything in sight and not stop until you get to the boss tanks because they can survive it and heal back anything that did happen.
Im well aware. They nerfed tanks so they cant actually do that any more. With the exception of Normal and Heroic dungeons. This is not a problem in pre-made content.
This “toxicity” mentality youre talking about only happens in the trivial content dungeond. The ones that were labeled as “underutilized” by Blizzard, which would infer a minority of people participating in said difficulties.
So to reiterate, this isnt a wide spread epidemic like youre trying to make it out to be. Its restricted to “underutilized” content. Youre trying to take something quite small and blow it up. As i said, i admire you for sticking to your guns, but its in the minority.
Now, yes. They nerfed tanks going into TWW (or pre-patch, im not sure i wasnt here). But before i was able to solo m0s and i left only 4-5 weeks into DF S4.
Now, I wouldn’t stand a chance, even with equivalent gear to what i had prior.
Last boss in Echoes as well
I’m not going to debate the point with you, as its has all been said already, multiple times, in the last few days by me and longer than that by others.
I’d point you to the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of comments made by others in mulitple topic threads on this subject, even ones that are currently topping the list on general right now (besides this one), that state their opinions reaffirming the toxic nature of the current grouping game (both pug and premade), and agreeing with what I and others have been describing.
I’m aware. Its been widely discussed here on the forums, as you are aware of.
The change you speak of is new with this xpac, a focus back to the trinity, and the ramifications of that change has not been fully felt yet.
But there are plenty of upset toxic tanks still talking about treating others in toxic ways post those changes. They admit to not following the social contract they have agreed to, and they continue to focus on negative aspects of social gameplay with others as the norm and expected behavior. And they say this for both when they pug as well as premade, which leads me to…
There’s plenty of stories told by others on these forums that would contradict what you have said (people purposely bricking keys, leaving after first boss (which Blizzard had to intervene on), etc.).
Truthfully, don’t wish to debate this with you any more, as I’m thinking your definition of social ‘toxicity’ is different than mine.
For me, its self evident, there’s widespread opinion expessing such by the customer base of multiple instances of being on the receiving end of toxic behavior, and the fact that everybody is off in delves to avoid the toxicity and even saying as much of thats what they are doing on these forums reinforces the truth of the state of the social grouping game of WoW, which is contrary to your perspective, as you describe it here.
Anyway, do appreciate you keeping it civil, thank you for that.
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Just started gearing my blood dk and I love it. I get instant invites and I’m low ilevel.
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And I’d point you to the fact that Blizzard has stated that the forum users are like 1% of the player base. You’re proving my point even more when you try to use the forums as your “strength in numbers” argument.
Aren’t people complaining about a tank “shortage”. So now we’re going to take a fraction of earlier said fraction of the player base and using that number as your strength in numbers argument? Do you read what you write? Or better yet, do you actually believe what you’re writing?
So we went from
- Using the forums as our base for numbers
- To tanks on the forums
- To people leaving after first boss (this isn’t even a tank issue which is what we’ve been discussing showing that you’re reaching - and Blizzard intervening is only in queued content…you know…the content that I said this problem was isolated around…thanks again for proving the point)
But they’re not…M+ even amidst it’s nerfs has had strong starting numbers in the first couple weeks. Raid, in first couple weeks, is already at 85% of the participation of what DFs S3 raid was for the entire tier for participation numbers. This “self evidence” you’re mentioning shows that you’re intentionally wearing blinders and purposely avoiding the facts because it goes against your narrative.
And again, if this “social toxicity” is as wide spread as you keep saying, why has it been the overwhelming majority of my dungeon runs, in every facet, wants that “toxic” nature?? It’s because the it’s trivial content. People have done it a hundred times, and they’re there to get in and get out. The actual number of people who use Heroic dungeons as their end game and care about playing their role in that environment is miniscule.
So much so Blizzard felt the need to call it “underutilized” (citation was provided), and combine 10 dungeon difficulties into that singular level.
You could take the whole of Wyoming, South Dakota, and North Dakota population combined…and it still would still be less than 1% of the entire population of the United Sates.
I live in Wyoming…for where i’m standing, it would seem like a lot if everyone was affected by one thing or another. Especially if the other two states were similarly affected…simply by proximity. But the fact would remain that less than 1% of the entire population of the US would be affected.
^^ you using the forums as your big standing point
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I’m aware.
While the forms are a small subset of the online population, they are a representation of the online population, in the same way that when they do polling for who’s going to vote for they do it based on a small subset of the actual voter base.
Its a video game. I stand by what I said, I believe you are wrong. Leaving it at agree to disagree, and moving on, as its not worth any more of our time.
Edit: typos
Youre aware…meaning you intentionally choose to ignore that other subset of players with opposing views and examples? Admitting to only engage with an echo chamber isnt a good thing
Yet 4 edits and previously backing your opinion vehemently up to this point, thats a reductionist thing to say.
You can think im wrong, but numbers provd otherwise
there is no tank shortage, there is an abundance of people tanks dont want to group with
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I made a M0 today for City of Threads to learn tanking this dungeon. I listed the group to be a chill run. Group fills up fast, and we wiped at the first boss, no big deal right? Well, this shaman in the group starts raging at me, so I booted his butt. We replaced him, I learned from the mistake and we 1 shot the rest of the bosses in the dungeon.
DPS are so unforgiving on tanks and healers. This is why so many players don’t want to tank. You can’t even list a group as learning without at least attracing a jerk or two.
M+ just brings out the worst in people.
i have liked tanking on my alt (paladin) since wotlk.
Why I am not liking it much anymore:
- dps running ahead and “helping” by deliberately pulling more groups. It doesn’t help nor is it appreciated. It’s annoying and just makes things more stressful than they need to be.
- the “gogogogogogogo” mentality.
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I’ve tanked since TBC. Tanked in ffxi before playing Wow. M+ is toxic AF. If you don’t pull exactly the way someone wants without saying a word, leaves. Watch a few videos for a freaking dungeon, and it’s not the optimal path someone else found that’s .5 seconds faster, leaves. But if they miss a kick, not use a defensive, or stand in crap, oh well healer’s problem.
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I’ve tanked since vanilla, and I’m basically done.
It’s honestly just not fun anymore, if it ever was.
There’s just no thrill of tanking, there’s no play making, there’s definitely no reward or benefit of putting in 10x the effort and get not much out of it. That’s not even getting into the crazy abuse you put up with.
The community has done it to themselves. Tanking was already a chore, and everyone took it for granted.
I started playing hunter and rogue and it’s 100 times more rewarding and just plain fun.
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If we follow your advice, then we’d be in the FF14 position: healers are useless and shouldn’t exist at all.
No they don’t, and you’re being disingenuous with relying on those, as they do not describe the actual subject being discussed.
Also, you’re ignoring other facts that are evident to everyone but you.
Yes, you are wrong, and I stand by what I’ve said.
At some point you just have to say enough, arguing is not going to prove anything, everything’s been said, people are not going to agree because their focus is just on winning an Internet argument.
Best to just let it go and move on. That’s not that hard to understand for normal people.
As far as the edits go, when I’m replying on my cell phone, a lot of times I have to edit for typos, as my eyesight is not great, and the screen is small. Also going back and copying original comment being said to paste it in the one being written.
Anyway, we done? It truly is just a video game, and not worth the time.
And speaking of truly, I truly wish for you to have a nice day.
I tried tanking last expansion, took some time to learn dungeons and such, did 5 dungeons with others, thats all it took lol People are vile and just tear you apart just because your not a amazing, bad to the bone tank, people have definitely lost their patience, if your not done with a dungeon in 5 minutes, you automatically suck
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The community did this to itself
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I’m an incredibly good tank though.
If I get abuse as a good tank with a ton of experience, I can’t even imagine a “bad” tank.
Honestly most “bad” tanks are just new or returning players. When people give them no time to grow, they give up and become another DPS like everyone else.
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No amount of reward would encourage me to endure the punishment of an M+ dungeon as a tank with even one substandard damage character. Blizzard took my teeth, so now being extremely picky with damage and healer is my recourse.
You are the one whose math doesn’t add up. There are now tank shortages at all difficulties of dungeons. The tank shortage in normal leveling dungeon you create today will result in exacerbating the present tank shortage in the near future. People aren’t leveling tanks. Every tank has 3 second queues. This is a new thing. I’ve done loads of queued dungeons over the years. I’ve never seen it like this before.
You’re posting on a warlock. Do you tank? Have you tanked this expansion? I’m seeing an increase in trolling now. It’s pretty annoying having to kick a dk who thinks it’s funny that he killed the healer and tank by putting path of frost down as they jumped into the water in Rookery, then they have to run back while everybody waits.
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