The fact that you keep trying to compare melee to ranged immediately makes your argument lose merit. I’m so tired of seeing you type the same thing and make no sense while doing so.
We’re not talking about RWF. RWF does not apply to the countless players just trying to play the game man. RWF does not apply to the topic at hand.
You’re not adding anything constructive to the conversation. Merely diluting it with nonsense.
Because Pres and Aug share utility (in m+ especially) If you have a pres, you are making an aug less beneficial.
Zephyr does not stack, neither does time spiral, and evoker buff also doesn’t.
I get where you’re coming from with buffs and whatnot. But you can also stagger usage of them to get 100% benefit from multiples Zephyrs and Time Spirals. Party buffs are just kind of nonessential extras in M+ because it’s impossible to have every buff possible unless you’re in a raid, so that part doesn’t really matter.
Anyways, Pres is a healer and Aug is “dps” so there’s no really reason one would impact the other.
You have no idea what goes into an m+ comp.
Class buffs are a factor and utility too.
If you wanna push past 20, sure, then it makes sense to get granular. But there’s literally no reason except for the try hards out there looking to get “ranked” in M+ lol.
Class diversity is nice, but not essential in most M+ groups.
And unless if you’re tryharding, you don’t need 40 yard range either.
Heroic raid is doable by anyone same with m+20.
Dude, that makes literally 0 sense. It’s so funny how you desperately try to tie anything you can to this ranged debate lol. First melee range and now try-harding = 40 yard range? Does that mean if I play any other class with 40 yards I’m automatically a try hard? Get out of here lol.
We’re not talking about try-harding anything, we’re not talking about whether something is doable or not. We’re talking about parity with other ranged classes who have a base range of 40 yards. Simple as that, don’t try to confuse that with your nonsense.
There is no need for parity when among presence, pres evoker surpasses the non-favored spec. (Resto shaman, resto druid.)
You are simply unable to comprehend that range can be part of the power budget.
You picked a mid-ranged class. Accept it.
Interesting, where did you get your data from? Cause on Warcraft logs, out of 7 healers, Pres is 6th lol. And for M+ Pres is at the bottom.
Where’s the balance in our power for the ranged tradeoff? I don’t seem to see it. On top of that, numerous people above agree that the reduced range sucks and Warcraft logs even seems to agree. Are you gunna say that numbers aren’t real next? Cause I will ROFL if you do XD
Anyways, everything points to you being wrong - accept it.
Interesting, where did you get your data from? Cause on Warcraft logs, out of 7 healers, Pres is 6th lol. And for M+ Pres is at the bottom.
Numbers of kills that have a pres evoker for Mythic Tindral. Then compared to the number of kills that have a resto druid or resto shaman.
Dude, you’re looking at Mythic kills? That’s like what, a fraction of 1% of all raiders? And raiders are a small fraction of the overall WoW community to begin with.
Your sample size is so small it’s literally meaningless. Plainly, it does not represent the overall WoW community.
Of course, rather than looking at irrelevant content (heroic) where people can 3 heal a 30 man raid.
I’m talking about everyone dude. From the solo, world content players up to Mythic raiders/20+ Mythics and everyone in between. Last I checked, we’re on the Evoker forums. Not the Mythic Raider Evoker forums.
Take your head out of your a** man.
So content that anyone can do with anything, what does that prove other than class popularity? Why does a class need to be popular?
Not talking about popularity man. Why is it so hard for you to just stay on topic? We’re talking about the players who mostly like Evoker and about the people above who said they played Evoker but stopped because of the range.
The reduced range is something the majority of people who are/were interested in Evoker do not like. We’re not talking about Evoker being more popular than any other class - you are. You keep comparing it to other classes and we’re not doing that here. We’re talking about one part of this class that most people don’t enjoy.
If 99 people out of 100 don’t like something, then no matter what you say you are wrong lol.
If 100 people signed up to play melee and 99 hate it, should it get extra range because they formerly played mage or something?
Are you kidding me? Like I’ve said before, melee inherently, inextricably has you in melee combat. That’s why I don’t really play melee dps. I enjoy tanking, but not melee dps so I don’t play it.
I would also expect someone who played a mage, to play any other ranged class if that’s what they enjoy lol. Stop trying to confuse things man, it’s pathetic.
Evoker is a ranged class - that’s the whole point here. They’re ranged but as we’ve seen we have people playing in melee to make it easier to play the class. If people feel like they have to be in melee to play the class well then it’s not a ranged class lol - or even “mid-range”. However, Blizz touted it specifically as a ranged class. You understand how ironic all that is right?
Couldn’t have said it better myself. How is it always the people that aren’t pushing difficult content that have the most to complain about? It’d be a whole different thing if HoF players were out in force complaining this hard.
If people are taking a spec to late mythic raid, it’s more than capable of excelling everywhere else.
Mid-ranged* class. Which you knew when you made it. You also chose a race with melee range racials, do you think those should be 40yd range too?
Playing in melee when the situation calls for it/ makes it advantageous is something good players do regardless of their spec/range. Do your ranged stand at 40 yd range for Igira? Fyrakk? Tindral? Smolderon? Almost all the fights in this raid necessitate grouping/playing well within the 40 yard range, as do most m+ situations.
Hey buddy, thought you ignored me? So glad I made it back into your good graces <3
As I said earlier, the overwhelming majority of players do not raid Mythic. I’ll bite though, just because something can be good or excel or whatever words you wanna use, doesn’t mean it can’t be a bit better. There’s literally no reason for us to have reduced range compared to other classes and the arguments for increasing our range far outweigh any “reasons” against doing so.
Okay first of all, this whole, “it started out this way, therefore it cannot change” argument needs to go. It’s so invalid because Blizz has started many things and it has changed many things. Please, stop repeating this garbage of how things cannot change lol.
Melee range racials? Are you trying to refer to Tail Swipe? I mean, that’s just one ability lol and no Tail Swipe should not be 40 yards lol - it’s in the name. Having a 40yard long tail makes no sense - unless you’re an Aspect I guess.
We’re not talking about any of those scenarios you mentioned lol. It’s so funny when people start throwing Red Herrings in to confuse the topic/train of thought.
Huddling near the boss when it makes sense to for encounters is fine because that’s something everyone in the raid/group must do - not just Evokers. But as others have posted above, they routinely just chill in melee range (mainly Aug from what I saw) to make targeting easier. So if they feel the need to routinely stay in melee range - regardless of the scenario (like you posted above) - then it’s just bad class design. Evoker is then not a ranged class at all but melee. Evoker was touted as a spellcaster though and spellcasters tend to be ranged if I’m not mistaken =P
No, most M+ scenarios do not require one to explicitly stack in melee range. Do they happen? Sure, but don’t kid yourself that it’s necessary all the time lol.
Weird, I’ll tell that to holy pallies and mw monks.
It’s clear you’re too fixated on needing 40 yd range to actually just learn to excel in the range we have. People that enjoy the class as is don’t want to take an inevitable nerf if our ranged is increased, because with our mobility it’s never needed for DPS evoker if you manage CD’s well.
It’s just not, whether you believe it or not. Stay mad, or accept it and embrace it. Doesn’t matter to me.