They don’t want equal opportunity. They want equal outcome.
And it’s childish.
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Yeah, idk what the dealio is. In terms of my IRL responsibilities I’m a mechanical engineer that works on HVAC systems in hospitals. I often work 50 hour weeks because of overtime, and I still have the time to be in a heroic raiding guild. Hell there’s a guy in my guild that is a freaking truck driver and he raids with us every week too.
It’s just a dead excuse at this point and has been for years.
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And 8.2 was f’ing terrible because of it. Literally quit for 3/4s of a tier because you could get fully upgraded benthic in 3-4 weeks. I then was stuck in H EP with only one boss that could give an upgrade and got double gold 6 weeks in a row until I finally quit. Great game. But at least the casuals got to feel special having the same gear as heroic raiders. Absolutely terrible system.
Then you had the filthy unwashed masses sooking about how LFR gear needed to be better in 8.3 because they didn’t want to wipe for an hour on N’zoth to get worse than WQ gear. It’s almost like a) that was what we got all of 8.2 and b) that’s exactly what we said would happen with LFR.
If there is any progression to be had, it should come from crafting. Vanilla was so good with early raid quality crafted gear and created a merchant class. They should have no freebies at all via wqs/ emissaries/ etc and then set crafted gear to normal raid level. Have in depth systems of upgrades like vanilla (i.e powerful enchants that take a while to earn), multiple sockets, etc. It solves multiple problems. It adds another play style (i.e merchant), it gives casuals something to do (earn the high end prof patterns + the gear itself) and it allows all people to participate meaningfully in the economy.
Preach!
One of my biggest complaints in BfA was that it was the first expansion I was over-geared for Normal tier raiding when the new raids were released when in Legion I’d get to farm normal for a while to get some upgrades and learn the basic mechanics before moving on to Heroic.
I mythic raid twice a week… thursday and friday . 8pm-11pm … damn … i have no life smdh please know your facts before you run your mouth … dummy
100% agree with this and i believe the only people who would have an issue with it is elitist who measure their self worth by having something better than someone else.
As someone who does both mythic raiding and elite pvp what another player has does not effect me. Everyone should be able to progress their own way.
Or the actual casual who doesn’t want any more non raid content ruined because some mewling loser wants free gear they never earned.
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Then there really isn’t that much of a problem because in SL you’ll be able to get Mythic ilvl loot from your weekly chest with up to 3 options if you’ve done your weekly 10 +15s.
Not only that but if you’re a PvP player you should be able to achieve Mythic ilvl with the Conquest upgrade system. Now how long that takes to do that will be a different discussion.
The only route that doesn’t have clear access to Mythic ilvl loot without having to push harder content would be Raiding.
I ask why people who maybe don’t raid or don’t do M+ even need max lvl gear.
People who do that hardest content in game should have it and be rewarded for it.
“others dont deserve good gear if they dont do mythic, they dont need it” let me continue the implication of that sentence, the implication that goes “You dont deserve good gear because I deserve it more and should always be above you because I mythic raid” Unless you are going to be raiding (even mystic) and M+ content, you don’t need the gear. That’s not being toxic, that’s just common sense.
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I think people have missed the point behind the OP.
Well…2 points that seem to be at the core of the back and forth.
Clique culture and the underlying game design itself.
The game design of endgame assumes you have some “threshold of all” of the gear/buffs/etc. Under threshold: high challenge. At/over threshold: diminishing challenge.
M+/raid gear isn’t treated separately from WQ/etc. gear.
So the threshold is based off of the higher ilvl gear, since it’s all a part of the system.
The different types of content don’t exist separately from each other at all.
So WQ/etc. will not necessarily get you to the “threshold” of conquering content, leaving it to be a constant uphill slog versus being able to crest the hill.
Metaphorically speaking of course.
In effect creating the toxic attitudes (casual vs elitist).
It doesn’t help that the clique culture regards the threshold with some sort of religious zealotry…further reinforcing the class stratification.
People claim that this is a social game, and because of that, people just need to guild/group and everything turns into rainbows and puppies.
Okay. Let’s run with that.
Are these people going to stop trivializing the challenge of content at every possible step by setting realistic grouping requirements? Doubt it.
All these arguments about filthy casuals needing to “put in the time”.
When all they seem to do is go out of their way to make sure their time is protected by setting (for example) ilvl requirements that trivializes their content consumption?
All of this is what I see standing behind the OP on this one.
Should M+15 and Mythic raids drop the absolute best gear?
Absolutely.
But the rest of the game content shouldn’t revolve around that level requirement.
The rest of the content should be met with a step down from that, which should have multiple paths available to reach and those paths certainly don’t have to be “optimized” for raiding potential either.
That single funnel is part of the problem.
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I have a very unpopular idea but gonna throw it out there.
Since everyone seems to be arguing there is a huge difference in skill required for each playstyle (and I dont disagree) only the people who do the hardest content get the best rewards.
How about if we simply make the hardest content so that the rewards do not function in them? Make a template for everything above normal dungeons or LFR. Show us that skill everyone is bragging about and make it ONLY about skill and not gear (like when that guild in Wrath did LK in all blues) and not a crutch for bad players.
Keep the gear improvement for world quest content so yo can clear your dailies and old content easier. Everyone gets more powerful in the world and “skill” players can show how great they really are without their “skill” being skewed by their gear
Pretty much irrelevant as the only content “casual” gear won’t grant immediate access to is the very content they are refusing to do.
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no ma’am. I noted this path could cap out 5 or 10 ilvls below current raid or m++++ whatever. Much like how Benthic gear capped out. That way us filthy losers will never be as shiny as your glorious self. I seriously cant see the harm in allowing that 10th shoulder drop being converted into some slow progression. It helps the crappy RNG design issue at the same time. Win, win, win. I can slowly upgrade over time, you will always have better gear sooner if you raid/M+, and I wont hate RNG quite as bad.
I don’t believe there is an issue with the way it’s presented. There are multiple paths for players to take if they want to get ilvls and it all is within the 3 areas of the game. If players don’t want to do Raiding, PvP or M+ then I’m not sure where they’re wanting gear drops to come from. Because content like World Questing should never come close to organized group content where organization is a requirement for success.
You don’t deserve mythic raid quality gear if you do not have the ability to down it.
This game is already saturated in giving the casual player gear… Why do you think Raider io exists??? Because nobody can tell who is bad and good anymore. Everyone’s ilvls are ramped into the sky even if they are 3/12 LFR.
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This entire post was a very long way of saying, “I need to stop playing MMO’s because my availability and willingness to team with other active players to achieve goals in harder content is lacking.” The only unhealthy opinion to carry is one where you think you deserve access to higher quality gear for doing literally no-work by casually questing, or running around completing short tasks for world quests and getting a box every week with raid tier gear LMFAO. People raid because they enjoy a challenge in WoW, and they perform mythic and mythic+ to continue to grow and get better. For highest quality content and gear it takes actual awareness of mechanics and class skill. There should ALWAYS be a limiting factor for casual players. It’s when they started catering to casual players the game lost millions of subs. Also, if you’re so casual, why does it hurt you so bad to just wear the intended gear for casual players; you don’t need the highest ilvl to complete casual content, right?
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The only time any strife happens between “casuals and elitists” happens is when casuals start crying for handouts.
Do I care what a casual player’s ilvl is? Yes. I do. Why? Because the inflated ilvl’s this expansion meant anyone could queue up for a pug run and show pretty early that they had no sweet clue how to play their class/spec but they got invited because their ilvl LOOKED like they MIGHT know what they’re doing.
If casual players stayed in casual play I wouldn’t care but they don’t so the system of harder content getting better gear at least gives people like me that pug on multiple toons a CHANCE to not waste 3 hours trying to kill 3 bosses.
Sorry casual players: you’ll get the gear that you work for … as it should be.
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Because I feel like OPs carefully worded topic is just a cover up for wanting free easy endgame gear.
Like the game already tosses you a ton of gear anyways. lol
It’s just his latest rant against filthy elitists. The threads are more of a rage against them than anything else. OP just finds a new spin on the same old tired topic every week and rallies all the other people looking for free handouts.
Lol Entitled Elitist… your crazy, you sound like a Liberal. Give me everything for free please and if it requires work your not even remotely interested. My attitude coming from games like EQ where hard core raiding was invented paved the way for Wow to exist. So you want to remove the very carrot that keeps people playing and dumb it down and hand out participation trophies. Well that already exist in spades for the casual player base. Why does having a higher tier of gear available to those willing to work for it some how negatively effect your game play? What because your unable to achieve it, and so no one else should be allowed to? No thanks on the socialism burn down game and world mindset that your type wants.