I see a lot of raid reward dominance sentiment that are acknowledging that M+ gearing does not pace with Raid gearing. Then mention that at the end of the tier the Weekly Lotto Box should have enough time to give you a full set; then proclaiming this as the ‘end of this discussion / is technically available / stop complaining’.
Blizzard acknowledged & messages 2 things in current game design philosophy, in regards to this. Those are:
Three Parallel Progression Paths (PvP, M+, Raid)
That individuals that do not focus on all 3 systems should be within a 95% power threshold of those that push all content
Raid gearing significantly outpacing PvP and M+, by its nature, is not a Progression Path. As the season/tier commences, you’re forced to Raid to maintain a remotely competitive threshold within any other content‘s seasonal progression. This should be explicitly addressed by Blizzard with either a correction to game design & development, or correction to messaging to subscribers of the product. I believe it would be incredibly healthy for the future of the game to finally actuate PvP and M+ gearing as a valid progression pathway (that scales).
No one is saying that the game shouldn’t cater to the raiders and PvPers. We’re saying that the game shouldn’t exclusively cater to them. There’s a big difference.
Not so. Every raid tier of WotLK was made available to dungeoneers via the badge system as soon as the next tier came out. Everyone had a progression system. The raiders simply got their gear faster, and I’m OK with that. It wasn’t until Cataclysm that Blizzard decided that dungeoneers shouldn’t get raid gear, period. Then they relented and added LFR so that players who previously got gear from dungeons would now have “accessible” content through which to get inferior raid gear. Then when raiders complained that casuals were getting tier sets through LFR they removed tier sets completely and switched to borrowed power systems instead. Then they decided to cut all queueable content off from accessibility to high end gear altogether, locking it behind the Mythic+ key system. There’s been a succession of ever-worse ways to screw over casuals starting with Cataclysm, but somehow casuals are still blamed for everything that’s wrong with the game.
So, just my opinion. As a CE raider and someone who sells M+ and raids, I honestly couldn’t care less about what gear people are wearing. I played SL Beta from 50-60, and honestly, I didn’t replace any gear until around 58. Truth be told, it wouldn’t have hurt my experience in the least to replace that gear sooner, but by 60, we’ll all be rebasing anyways. Even in BfA right now, there are several ways to get gear, and if everyone is 475, I honestly wouldn’t be bothered in the least. Gear is just the ends to the means of completing the raids and pushing keys for me. If it helps those not doing that content in what they do, cool, more power to them.
However, at the same time, I would also think it’s unfair for those same people to get upset when they get declined to raids / M+ keys because they lack experience. Just because you have gear doesn’t mean you have the ability to do the content. I think that’s an important distinction. I’m hot garbage at PvP, so I will never get a high rating (unless I pay for it). It would be unfair of me to demand that I can get the glad mounts just because I want to keep doing rated PvP and lose every single match.
Mythic/M+ is timed. I’m not going to be able to play with my married friends who can’t regularly block out solid game time that’s guaranteed to be free of interruptions. So, no, it’s not what I’m looking for.
Word, there’s been a lot of derivation of points here. Wanted to make sure that portion was stated, at least as I see it (not speaking on WQ’s, etc with my post)
If the system worked like the original Guild Wars, where there were no stats on gear whatsoever, and all your stats came from your preferred stat allocations and/or captured skills, then I agree all these problems would go away. However, that’s not the system that Blizzard decided to go with. As long as the same open world mobs that are tuned to destroy an ungeared max level player can be practically one-shotted by a fully geared raider, there’s going to be grief.
I agree. I don’t remember anyone being up in arms about this, but maybe I just glossed over those posts.
Isn’t the point to boost your key, though? Also, you can’t queue into it. That’s fine if you started the expansion with a guild. It’s not so great if you’re coming into the expansion late.
If you want to progress your key then yes. “The point” is kind of whatever you decide it should be, either completion or timing. If you can’t time for whatever reason, there’s nothing wrong with completion. It’s not failure.
And you can find a guild/group of people no matter when you come into the xpac.
That depends on you. There’s tons of groups just running for completion every week.
If you’re not trying to go crazy high, it’s pretty easy. I came back in 8.3 after quitting in WOD and got myself to a decent medium level. Plenty of guilds and communities in the in-game finder that you can use to meet people.
Now I remember you. You’re the PvP guy who complains about raids and doesn’t know “your” from “you’re”. Apparently you do the same with their/there/they’re.
Okay, got it. You’re just a troll who plays WoW for PvP. Lol.
Try to play a non-RPG to PvP. RPG’s where gear is acquired outside of the match itself are never going to be balanced and never going to be the best place for competitive PvE.
You are literally the guy playing Diablo, crying why you can’t group with 39 other people or why you can’t carry your character from Diablo through Diablo 4. You are literally playing the wrong type of game.
I honestly can’t tell you what “elitists” you’re talking about wanting LFR removed. How many CE raiders are making those posts? I certainly see no value in removing LFR.
Honestly I’ve never really felt like I need the best gear, as someone who basically doesn’t raid outside a tiny bit of LFR and does no mythics either. Yes, you hit a wall once you’ve got all 445s, but I usually take that time to roll another character. There is to me a “solo bis” and it’s 445s as of 8.3. They can move that around however they want, that’s still all I’ll pursue.
The fact that non-soloists can get higher than 445 means very little to me, they play the game differently and really we don’t interact much. I’d consider PvP again if they let you gear up through that, but it would actually be for queuing into good gear more than for the actual love of pvp. I could stomach it for good rewards is all. Right now you get steamrolled by people who’ve done mythic PvE content, that’s so stupid I won’t even bother queuing until something changes.
Agreed. Here’s a question - should Raiding PvE gear give you an advantage over a 445 player who got their gear via WQ and the like - i.e. other PvE content that is easier to acquire the gear?