Again, what’s the legitimate reason? People already change specs more often than they should. I’m sure I can read about why other people are against it, but what’s your reason? Surely you have your own thoughts on this.
Still not comprehending what I say, I see.
Thank you, you too.
I am trying. Maybe you aren’t understanding me either.
You said earlier that some things in Retail are superior.
I hate everything about retail except transmog.
I don’t have a fall back version of the game I can enjoy. This is it. If it fails again, there is nothing else.
Better than dual spec, at resolving the problem(s) I claimed dual spec is designed to solve.
That, btw, is a great place to start the conversation: What problem(s) does dual spec solve? Or rather, what is the problem you are trying to solve — forget about solutions, let’s identify the problem(s). Trying to apply a solution without a problem is not generally good practice (unless you’re a salesperson just trying to make money for yourself).
You said it yourself: Read the post. I make a couple. There are several other posts in the thread, and liked threads where others also have some points.
My biggest gripes with dual spec are two things:
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It tends to force some people who would prefer to play a single specialization to play 2 specializations, and maintain gearsets for them both.
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(and this is my personal bigger gripe) it unevenly rewards some classes more, while not really rewarding some others.
However, I still have to go back to the question of what problem(s) does Dual Spec resolve?
I’ll break it down into very short sentences then.
I am mostly neutral on the topic, leaning on no dual talents in TBC because I want a faithful recreation of the game.
That said, there is no negative at all to dual talents, and if in the event of it’s implementation, I won’t mald and go to the forums about how people are:
I understand what you’re saying. You also want a faithful recreation. Where you and I differ is I am not malding of the idea of it. The game already has a store which is the most atrocious implementation in any wow game and as long as that exists, it is a testament to the greed of Activision. This game died when it got the same store. I don’t want any more changes, but if Activision is going to change the game, I would rather see positive changes like dual spec, over another store item.
Both of those things exist right now. Despite the relative ease of classic, competitive guilds are going to expect you to fill every need that you’re capable of. Dual spec is more of a pvp convenience. You’re not going to see more tanks and healers in pugs because of it.
To an extent, sure. But it’s not as a baseline. I suppose, I just remember how I felt as someone who played tanking classes, in tanking specs during Wrath, when Dual Spec was implemented, and I suddenly had to learn how to play another spec, get gear, gem and enchant it.
It wasn’t the best implementation of a solution, if the problem was opening up access to more content for players, rather than locking them into a particular type. It seemed like more of a burden of responsibility (at the time, particularly — admittedly, that wouldn’t affect me much now, as I tend to keep multiple gearsets, and respec often enough anyway).
Certainly for some classes it can be merely that. But not for Hybrids.
I’ve never made such a claim.
I actually really dislike transmog. 
I agree with everything but the game dead part. It took a hit but it’s still kicking. Dual spec is just a lazy man having his cake and eating it too. Here’s an idea:
Roll another character if it means that much to you. Then we all get what we want. Too much work for the lazys probably.
Not targeted at you specifically Empathy.
Unless you’re in a competitive guild, you don’t have to learn anything. If you are in a competitive group, that’s already expected of you. If you’re a casual player, none of it matters. They’re not going to expect you to play multiple roles.
I know what I’m about to say is anecdotal, but I’m sure you, or people you know have similar experiences. Two of my friends play hybrids, Druid and Shaman. Our Druid went from resto to balance to resto to balance to feral. He has full sets of gear for all 3, and despite mostly tanking now, he is prepared for any role. Our Shaman is working on his resto set. He doesn’t plan on being resto, ever, but he has the items just incase he does need to for the raid.
If a player is put into the situation to play two roles, with or without dual spec or lower respec costs, they will be forced to play both roles. Players who are not forced to now, will not be forced to later. I know my raid is not in the interest to take our half pre raid bis, half raid bis players and force them to change specs on a whim and gear them up a second time over. Dual spec would not change that for any 25 members of the raid group I am in, and neither would lower respec fees.
How so? Those classes still have the option to be those other specs, and those classes still will take OS items if they want said OS item and no MS needs it. No changes, Dual talent, lower respec will not change that.
I don’t see either of those points are good arguments because they don’t change anything in any real capacity.
Any players forced to change for their raid are still forced to for their spot, and classes that can hybrid are still taking items for their OS.
So again, where’s the good argument. To you these may be good, but it’s not convincing me.
Before you say it, I lean towards NOT wanting dual spec, because I want a faithful recreation of the game. That said, if Dual spec got implemented, it would just be QOL imo, more so than respec fee being 50s. 50s respec is quite literally dual spec lite as it’s just dual spec with extra steps at that point.
What problems does it solve? Bro, I don’t even want it in the game, but like I said, it’s QOL. You can say it’d “force players to play two specs” but more than likely, those players already are, or it’s just not happening because people don’t want to regear geared players, and a 50s respec would lead to either my exact points, or lead to what you don’t want, which is playing multiple specs. “Ay we need you as resto this raid.” “But im ele?” “Go respec we’ll summon you back.” done. It’s 50s, what does it matter, you see what I’m saying?
Leveling a character to 70, and fully gearing them is lazy? I planned on making a second rogue for pvp, but honestly, I don’t want to because I’ve already invested so much into this one, and I don’t want to do it all over again.
I know you said that you’re not targetting me with that, but I feel like a lot of people would feel that way. Having both a pve and pvp character is a lot when you could do it on the one character you actually want to play.
The game is floundering bro. Retail is dying, and classic may have reinvited older players “longing for the good ol’ days” but that’s dying too. Wow itself is dying, and it’s more than just a few changes causing this.
But that’s a different topic for a different day.
Agree. Sad.
I’ll fight it every step of the way though.
Any guild that tries is a competitive guild. This is the vast majority of raid groups, as far as I am aware. This doesn’t seem like a worthwhile contribution to this thread, imo.
This is the point of contention, I suppose. I disagree (and perhaps also for anecdotal reasons, i.e. I remember the stress it caused me during WotLK. It wasn’t a fun change for me, and outside of raid nights, I would typically tank all heroics, daily. I played a lot).
Because, average groups tend to copy what those at the top are doing. We see this in sports, jobs (software job interviews at average and below companies copy the interview styles of FAANG, even if they don’t have comparable problems to solve), people read guides and just copy talent builds/gearlists/gem/enchants without giving it thought.
During Wrath, when dual spec hit, hybrids were expected to be able to perform 2 PVE roles in PVE content across a much larger range than they would have been otherwise. Again, completely anecdotal, because I have zero data (and it’s quite possible that my opinion is just biased from my own experiences, and wrong. I don’t know or have any real way to claim I am right).
Well, so do I. I am not actually advocating for any changes. The only change that I personally feel has been a good change, is the change to the character window, where you can move your characters with your mouse, clicking on the character — not having to click the arrow buttons.
50s isn’t Dual Spec lite. Dual Spec still requires respecc’ing between raid nights and PVP days/nights, for a lot of people, particularly classes that would be required to maintain 2 specs in any single particular content. But that’s just a difference in our perspectives and maybe preferences, I suppose. Not really a disagreement.
I actually enjoy playing multiple specs, and respecc’ing often. It’s been a long time since I “came of age” in WoW (as I’m sure is the case for most of us), and exploring a classes full toolkit through experiencing the situations where situationally useful skills are useful is very helpful, and important, imo.
I think respecc’ing often, and exploring a class’s toolkit is better than not. But, that wasn’t an intended part of the design at the time that BC was introduced.
Yeah. And don’t get me wrong, I don’t particularly disagree with you either. It’s just that Dual Spec still limits you to 2 specs, and still requires respecs if you want to change.
And how often you might want to change specs, and talents for those specs may be different for different classes (so it unevenly benefits some classes more than others).
Additionally, it isn’t clear what sort of work would be involved in adding it, but it would certainly be considerably more work than simply changing a configuration variables on class trainers to change respec fees.
It is imperative to have a precise answer to this question, if we are going to be able to determine whether it’s a reasonable solution.
They definitely aren’t lol. What’s your prog looking like?
Do you know of guild raid groups that do not require gems/enchants on gear? Or have any gear requirements for that matter?
Sure, they may exist, but I’d imagine that to not be the norm.
The vast majority of them lol. What’s your prog looking like?
wasn’t TG added in wotlk aka the literal best expansion the game has had?
*in your opinion.
Wrath had the highest number of concurrent subscribers the game’s ever had, so not just my opinion it would seem?