Yeah, honestly it seemed a bit tacky to make it repeatable.
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Citation needed. I’m genuinely curious about this.
“The fire caught quickly. Shaman in Darkshore conjured winds to amplify the flames”
Page 5, Elegy
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/story/short-story/elegy
I thought it said shamans and druids, but I think it’s just shamans so I have to correct myself there.
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Thank you !
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As a matter of fact, she like all the racial leaders was just sitting on her behind in her throne room, giving like 2 quest (one comically enough, the related to the Lament of the Highborne). The RAS were the ones loling around like the Adams Family regarding the development of the blight -the scene of Sylvanas twirling her mustache regarding the Blight WAS a creation of the Arthas novel-.
So, no. WC3 does make her seem quite harsh, but then again her oponent on that game was the hateful cartoonish villain that we all loved to hate A.K.A. Garithos, so…
And how many times do we need to point out how THIS -using something as terrible as her first death / her trauma- IS the issue regarding her becoming a lolovillain… cause pardon me, but as much as people hates the Banshee for becoming the new cringe edgelord villain in WoW, fact is, the stuff Arthas put her through was lowkey metaphorical sexual assault -down to putting the emphasis in his motivations having root in a “vendetta / control fetish” and how her psyche was “destroyed” the moment Arthas penetrated her with his fancy magical sword WITHOUT outright killing her in one shot (heck in WC3 she ASKS to be killed and the a-hole says “no, cause you haven´t suffered enough” A.K.A. muh fun would end)-. If anything, I suspect the only reason that particular errr… “connotation” didn´t outright became an actual event was because the devs wanted to keep stuff at T rating.
Her lashing out DID make sense -she was a victim of quite a terrible form of abuse in-universe that can be actually extrapolated to irl despicable forms of abuse against women and men-. Using this trauma to lowkey justify her becoming a cartoonish villain with zero empathy towards other victims of the same abuse IS NOT.
As a matter of fact that´s our point: making her the poster child of "victim-to-perpetrator cycle" IS the disgusting fact -especially when her for of “abuse” is the “to deffine one aspect for a whole playable race” kind. It was a cheap shock factor and an irresponsible methapor to use.
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Where am I excusing her? Please demonstrate this. Quote it.
Your obsession with antagonizing me and putting words in my mouth even on a subject like this where I’ve attempted to kill myself three times and am disgusted with how Blizzard pinned Sylvanas’s deal with the devil trope on her suicide is beyond words Zahir.
This is a new low, even for you.
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This is correct.
This is indeed, The Point™.
Especially, as I’ve stated, the pinning of that trope on her suicide.
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Oh wait, how do I unlike. I wasn’t paying attention, I thought it said narcissist.
All the druids went to Sylithus to deal with the sword if I am remembering that correctly.
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To be fair, they’ve done that with other characters as well–Fandral and Leyara come to mind. But neither of them was High King of the Alliance.
On the other hand, five years from now the Night Elves may have rebuilt a beautiful new capital, and their theme might be something about rising from the literal ashes. There isn’t such a clear “way out” for the Horde, Sylvanas redemption or no.
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Correct, with the nuance that neither of them committed suicide.
antagonizing? I don´t antagonize you, i disagree with you in terms of sylvanas, thats all, so stop playing victim.
I’ve been finding anymore that that will be the most damning thing for the Horde; Being in line with Sylvanas until the 11th hour. Call it Blizzard not conveying not all were lock step with her or whatever, but that will ultimately be a massive thorn in the Horde’s narrative.
Anymore I’ve just come to the conclusion the only way to have kept this from happening to the Horde (aside from not having it happen at all) would be for Sylvanas to have gone full Saturday Morning villain, using subterfuge to get the Horde to act how she wanted; Declare the burning was a cowardly act by the Alliance to deny them their victory, threaten the loved ones of returning soldiers to keep them quiet, etc.
Far, FAR from a perfect scenario, but hey that is the fun of BfA; Finding out how else it ruined your favorite faction/race/character
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I would have preferred this scenario tbh. That’s what I thought the writers going for…it was the only thing that made sense to me at the time.
Then quote where I did what you accuse me of, where I excuse Sylvanas.
Please, go on, continue, I’ll wait.
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“She had to come to a choice, is she going to enforce the Jailer’s will upon him as had been done to her in the past, perhaps, or is she going to choose a different path? And we get that answer in the chains of domination intro cinematic.”
Are people ignoring this? She clearly made her choice in corrupting Anduin. That is the answer to the “Choice” cinematic, she made her decision and there is no turning back now.
It seems to me people aren’t reading these bloody interviews and are going forward spamming “Redemption confirmed LOLOL!” over and over to shut down actual discussion of what’s actually being said.
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You, my friend, have put yourself in line by comparing Sylvanas’ story and career with your own personal experience here. Generally you do this often, you always identify with it, but in the end it is only a character, nothing more, it is not the character’s job to give you a helpful answer for your problems in RL.
If someone has survived a genocide, should they also complain if Sylvanas gets a Redemption? Where does it start, where does it end, it’s a story, nothing more, stop filling it up with RL comparisons - especially your personal RL - and sniffing out racism- bad messages - and and and everywhere, because if you read…it gets really annoying in the long run…if you let OOC and IC flow together, something you learn as one of the first things as a Rpler, not to do…
So like, when reading, the sequence of statements is always super important.
Statement 1:
“As it’s clear by the cinematic, Anduin was ultimately dominated by Sylvanas, and that makes all the difference”
Statement 2, which comes after statement 1
his is the first time we’re showing what Sylvanas true motivations are, and players will have a better understanding of why she did what she did, but that doesn’t excuse her. She still burned Teldrassil, she’s still guilty of many deaths, and she still has a lot to answer for. We’re not forgetting that and we won’t be giving Sylvanas a pass.
Statement 3, which comes after statement 2 and closes the idea
When someone does what she did, it can’t be as simple as ‘oh, she did this one thing and now she’s redeemed’. That’s not the story we’re telling, but it is something that we will address throughout Chains of Domination and also in the future".
And I’ve stated repeatedly in this thread:
Not a single statement you quoted do I say “Sylvanas is excused because of trauma” you weirdo.
I am stating that Sylvanas was driven to pre-Wrath despair that led to her post-Wrath suicide because of trauma, and it is disgusting Blizzard “pinned” her “deal with the devil” on her suicide.
As Ariel stated:
WoW is full of reference to real-life, and each and every in-game race is based upon real-world peoples and cultures across the world.
Your insisting that this should not be analyzed within a sociological framework is stupid, and wrong.
I’m not an RP-er, I’m a sociologist in medical school playing WoW.
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Like any fantasy game, however, it is not the task of a setting to rework real history but to provide entertainment. Over-analyzing this system will only do one thing in the long run, erase any fun, erase any grey area, because it could definitely hurt someone somewhere.
Thus: Missing the point, this has nothing to do with “racism is cultivated here”, it is simply not the task of the game to deal with real history and to educate, you can’t expect that from a fantasy game and you shouldn’t either.
Incorrect.
All media consumed helps construct your world-view, and games precisely exist to be teach lessons and ways of thinking historically. Chess, for example, has historically been used as a micro-game to help think about war: what pawns or other persons are you willing to sacrifice to win? Other games serve this purpose as well.
All games impart moral/ethical logics. It is why villains get monologues, they get defeated, and then the hero has a monologue that teaches a valuable lesson.
But the last time any of those lessons have been clear in-game was Cataclysm, maybe MoP.
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