Eternal Ones, Pantheon of Death, ` New Interview`

Lore Story Forum
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I got something from Blizzard today that I think should make us scale back our notion regarding the eternal Ones.

They’re not like Titans, they’re more like Titankeepers, they’re one level below the Titans that are one level above. atleast according to this source

https://sagamer.co.za/2020/08/20/a-deep-dive-into-ardenweald-the-shadowlands-realm-of-hibernation/

“So the winter queen we wanted something that stood above the night fae and felt somewhat different than they were. And of course, she’s similar to other creatures like her that we’ve had in the past. You know, she’s not a Titan, but she’s something kind of right below that. She’s an ultra-powerful creature here and part of this pantheon in a similar way that the Titan Watchers and Keepers we’ve seen in the past were part of the pantheon of law and order. These are the pantheon of death. So, that was sort of a starting point is that she’s a creature above and beyond the night fae themselves. She’s part of a greater order.

So, ion a little bit out of scale with his “Titan ++” statement, or what could this mean, for the greater Picture and why are the titans so different from everything else?

Another Interesting bit came from danuser aswell, because he compared the Characterization of the winterqueen to the Earthmother. The Winterqueen as sis of the earthmother?

“And then past that, we start to think about what kind of characters do we think might represent her? What are the characteristics that we think she should embody? One of them was a sort of an Earthmother kind of character, which I think is a fairly obvious thing for a sort of nature queen but then above and beyond that to start to think about emotionally what she’s going through right now, with watching her realm die around her and watching these very powerful natural spirits that she might feel some kindred to dying as a result of the decisions that she’s forced to make, put her into a space of sorrow maybe unlike any of the other pantheon leaders.

Lets discuss this topic and not Teldrassil :smiley:

Thanks to Ziang for sharing his source.

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Well, that was in reference to Zovaal specifically, and could be a result of Zovaal’s increase intake of souls and anima.

You just doomed your own thread. You shouldn’t even have brought up Teldrassil.

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Schrodinger’s Canon imo.

Ion told Bellular these are the Pantheon of Death equal to the Titans and Zovaal is Titan Plus Plus.

Ion tells SA Gamer Winter Queen is one tier below the Titans.

That way no matter which way they go, they’re on record for having said it, and the other instance was Ion “misspeaking”.

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Some next-level marketing for the ‘Thousand Truths’ Void expansion.

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What I noticed, thinking about it: Titans are not in the realm of the arcane, which is supposed to exist, they seem a bit out of the picture, they don’t really seem like beings of order, compared to Aluneth. So, why are they there? Why are they above the Pantheon of Death, does this Titan ++ thing also apply to Sargeras or could he just crush Zoval? (he atleast has still his original body)

That was Danuser, not Ion, Danuser said this about the winterqueen.

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Statement stands, the intent is Schrodinger’s Canon :stuck_out_tongue:

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Let’s take the old “rule”, new before old, Ion’s statement about the Pantheon of Death was older than Ion’s statement. So the implication is ultimately, the Titans seem to be above the Pantheons, are they perhaps the First Ones after all? Would be funny though, because then you would have to ask yourself, why don’t they have a plan about the Shadowlands, then do you mean by Titans in the future only the Keepers, and not the true Titans?

I’m in the mood for an unencumbered discussion and we have enough Teldrassil! SO Lets do it boys.

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I have no idea how to compare Sargeras and Zovaal other than, both are now imprisoned thanks to their peers.

When it comes to the Titans and the realm of order, it does seem somewhat curious in that we’ve only known the Titans in the material plane of the universe. They’re born from planets with World Souls. However, it strikes me as distinctly possible that there are also Titans in the realm of order. There’s no reason the Pantheon we know of are the only existing Titans.

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The Titans seem pretty damn different, they don’t just use one magic apparently

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True, it’s also curious how the Titans we know have… adapted to different cosmic powers. They’re all beings of Arcane and Order, but Eonar wields power over Nature and Life, Aggramar wields power over the elements, Sargeras wields power over Fel, Argus was called the, ‘Death Titan,’ etc… And Azeroth’s blood doesn’t just have the distinctive blue arcane to it, but also a gold that might be similar to the Light.

For all we know, there could be a tier of Order entities above the Titans, and the Titans we know of are simply the cosmic power of Order’s attempt to do something similar to what Denathrius did. Dreadlords adapt to different cosmic powers as well.

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They honestly just seem too different, but the hierarchy of the cosmos seems weird and peculiar anyway, the Titans seem to be above Eternal Ones, but why, why should they ? And which purpose do that serve?

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“New Interview” - August 20, 2020.

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This is just me being crabby and not offering anything of substance to the discussion, but I get the feeling the devs think the pantheons of various domains are a lot more intriguing than they actually are. They seem to think we’re all buzzing with speculation like “Oooh, I wonder what the Void pantheon looks like!”

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I think bolting on this cosmology stuff is a bit of a death knell creatively. They either don’t want to write stories within the confines of the existing universe, or don’t think the playerbase would enjoy it, so they just start writing a new universe on top of the old and hopie people like it.

It’s not even a unique idea, really. Between the dragonflights, elemental planes, Titans and now the pantheons, Blizzard really loves to divvy up the forces of the universe and have them fight each other.

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I’m not sure what makes the titans so special. Maybe they aren’t really arcane related but “reality” related and thus can pull from different parts of the cosmos.

Another idea that I have is if they are arcane or “order” entities then maybe they are unopposed on a cosmic level. If fel or “disorder” is no longer in play then the forces of arcane or “order” might have the run of the cosmos not being hindered by their natural enemy.

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…What? Nothing about the winter queen made me think earth mother.

Feels like he’s just mentioning “earth mother” to just pretend they didn’t straight up forget about Tauren beliefs and afterlife.

It’d be something if they said they were planning a character like the earth mother… but why involve the WQ? the winter queen hasn’t even a shred of familiarity when compared to the earth mother lmao. The way he said it is so out of place.

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The Titan thing is forever going to be an anomaly until the Warcraft universe is rebooted. They were the original creators of the Warcraft universe for a long time until the whole cosmology thing came to be which placed them in a chair at the six seat table of equal powers, except they kept the lore about the Titans creating things and being ‘born’ from planets.

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Well no, they were never truly creator deities. Even with their introduction in WC3’s reading material the titans traveled around the cosmos introducing Order to worlds that already existed in less orderly states before they got there. It was never suggested that they spun Azeroth and other planets out of nothing, as the manual maintained that nobody really knew how the universe came into being, and the titans emerged at some unknown point thereafter; their role has always been reorganizing what was already existent before they arrived.

The addition of these other, more generalized cosmic forces as active agencies fits more into exploring that genesis of existence itself, whereas the titans have always been subsequent products of that genesis whose purpose was altering the form and function of the worlds within it.

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To be honest though I would actually like it if we meet an entire society based around the concept of the Void. Like they have build a kingdom or city in a similar place like Telogrus with impossible geometry and upside-down-buildings and at first glance it looks like complete chaos (think of Commorragh from Warhammer 40k), but are fully aware of the dangers and as such Void-magic is severly restriced or limited (as it would also endanger the entire city) with city guards etc. executing anyone who breaches these laws. Meanwhile they also have a bunch of seers who explore the endless paths of the Void in order to get an understanding of the future and making decisions based around these paths/visions.

(I had hoped for the void elves to be exactly this, having build an upside-down-Silvermoon and Blizzard simply using the ‘time flows different’-explanation they also used for Turalyon and Alleria but alas…we got grapefruit-elves on a rock.)

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While it doesn’t say they created worlds from nothing, the manual does say:

"came forward and set to work on the worlds they encountered. They shaped the form of their worlds by rising mighty mountain and dredging out vast seas. They breathed skies and raging atmospheres into being - all part of their unfathomable, far-sighted plan to create order out of chaos. They even empowered primitive races to tend to their works and maintain the integrity of their respective worlds.
The Titans brought order to a hundred million worlds scattered throughout Great Dar Beyond during the first ages of creation.

You can read that as they are glorified terraformers, but the Warcraft universe as it exists is because of the Titans’ work. They basically shaped planets so they would be able to support life and not be a chaotic mess. At least according to the earlier works.