Era is not worth playing anymore

Not that you made the accusation but I am not in any kind of denial about the level of arrogance surrounding that whole thing. Im just noting that his cocksure and smug demeanor wasn’t totally baseless thanks to we the people.

Here’s what Im talking about - and this applies to the other responses made to me as well:

The “Wall of No” comes crumbling down in the aftermath of Brack’s “you think you do but you don’t” commentary and the whole Nostalrius thing. The guy is then made to announce the relaunch of “Classic WoW” at the next Blizzcon. Haha, that’s what you get for being a jerk! We were right after all! Take that you son of a gun!

From there its one streamer after another waxing poetic about vanilla how its rerelease is a dream come true. The forums open up and everyone is in a state of ecstasy singing the praises of the old game, what it brings, how it does, why its the best blah blah blah.

The game launches and there is a brief honeymoon period lasting maybe for the first two phases. Right after that, the consensus was this game is easy, boring and sucks, we want TBC. At the very same time if not a little before, RMT and exploiting becomes wildly rampant, people leave servers in droves to form megaservers, pvp servers become single faction realms as any whiff of old school vanilla gameplay all but evaporates except for the small cadre of pathetic “classic andys” who should likewise burn in hell for holding their ground and speaking positively about the original vision of the game and/or not wanting any changes. Leading the charge are the very same streamers.

So here comes TBC, with a cash shop boost and mount package and you were in the tiniest of minorities if you thought those things didnt belong there and even more so if you actually stayed with Era - 99% of players gone and those that left didnt go quietly either, they made sure to let everyone know it was because Vanilla actually sucked and made fun of the people that played it.

While maining Era I was on the TBC boards having daily arguments with people who thought boosts were great, TBC should have dual specs and RFD and if I didnt like it, I can go play that crap and dead game, Classic Era. Again, I was in a very small minority - like 100 to 1, no joke. Well, now we need Wrath because that’s when Classic actually gets good because dual specs and RFD.

When it was announced that RFD would not be in Wrath (for launch as it turned out) people whined so hard you would think their lives depended on it. Some people quit over it. Then all the usual tropes of suing Blizzard, lame conspiracy theories, petitions, flaming dissenters, the whole works. Mind you Era was slightly less of a ghost town at this point but still a ghost town. And, as you can see this is a running theme by now - if you thought RDF wasn’t the whole reason to play Classic WoW you were outnumbered by such a wide margin it was damn near pointless to post unless you were okay with being viciously trolled and hated upon by most other people on the forum. There is no Classic WoW without RDF according to them.

Do you remember what Brack used to back his play? He said we didnt want old WoW because we couldn’t play without RDF - that was his example - we had forgotten “need tank for X”. We became hooked on all the QoL and watering down of vanillas experience to the point of no going back.

Even though Era is alive and kicking, you still have people that hate on certain specs, think prot warriors are obsolete, RMT is just another way to play the game, mage boosts and GDKPs are absolute necessities, min/max to the nth degree is the only way to play and on and on it goes - and the Era population will still be dwarfed by Cataclysms population.

So yeah, its your prerogative if you want to dismiss Brack as a charlatan and a jerk but thanks to the benefit of hindsight, I dont think the guy was just being mean and rude and dismissive - he kinda had a grasp on things. He wasn’t wrong.

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I know we’ve discussed this before and I saw all those forum posts too. To be fair there was pushback on the mount/boosts. Also, people have been dropping off over this stuff and other things that they haven’t enjoyed all along. I saw MANY quit and not come back over this server thing:

As you probably know, that was my least favorite part of all of what happened and, well I do blame the playerbase too, I mostly blame Blizzard for their keeping layering a month after TBCC released and then just raking in transfer money. The servers before TBCC were great IMO (and I know you put this in a different order but it was after TBCC that the most of server messes and 99% mega servers started, sure though there was RMT, exploiting and asking for TBC within 2020 Classic). Blizzard has doubled down on the mega server thing and it’s a major turn-off.

Do you mean the people who went to TBCC/didn’t clone hated on Vanilla/Era? Yeah, that was annoying, a lot of that seemed to come from the standard forum trolls though who are rude in 90% of their posts. I don’t remember a lot of people who quit outright hating on Era.

The forum for Wrath was certainly hijacked by the RDF talk, and the dual spec talk was also all over the TBC forum although I could ignore that.

I guess if you look at that forum specifically and the communities outside of that and ignore the people who dropped off, even if they didn’t speak up a lot, then you can give some credence to the “You think you do but you don’t” thing.

So again I still don’t think that telling that person at Blizzcon or the community who was asking for “Vanilla” servers “You think you do but you don’t” was right, but if you are saying that Blizzard didn’t want to deal with non-stop whining by certain people who could not live without their “QoL” that they already could have obtained in another version of the game, then sure.

I will say that recently Blizzard has been all about changing whatever they want for Classic if there’s enough feedback, and I don’t think that’s a good thing either nor has it fulfilled what was being asked for which was “playing the game as it was then”. I am not a fan of #somechanges at all, and I do know that even with #nochanges the playerbase was different but things weren’t as “far off from the original” from my perspective as they are now with Cata etc because at least the base game felt the same.

The Retail forum is also full of complaining and people whining for things, and that hasn’t changed for 20 years. So if a person comes here from the Retail forum and makes a troll-type post saying that C2019 never should have existed, which is pretty much exactly what that person I replied to is and did, I’m never going to agree with that.

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Lets all not get lost in our old memories with classic… It can be good yes but the state it’s in now isn’t ideal.

It’s not just dungeon finding that suffers right now, but also questing. Elite group quests are ignored when leveling. Endgame group quests are ignored due to relevancy. The 0.5 chain is rarely completed these days and people just seek others who have already did the work to get the reward.

Gold farming can be a mess when a single person can crash the auction house with multiple accounts with gold capped characters. I know this because I used some of my wealth I farmed for a year on to mess with some markets… held the firewater market at 22g for about a week before crashing it posting 1k all at once, did the same with mana pots and faps/lips. Made a little bit of money back and felt weird after that knowing someone with far more gold can do so much worse.

Remember the black lotus cartel guilds from 2019? They still exist and have bank alts full to the brim with lotus ripe to either profit or crash their markets.

The only enjoyment I ever really get out of ERA these days is just the world itself and the personal feeling of accomplishment from either questing, gathering or collecting rare stuff. Cause I know nothing matters anymore, you wont get 5mil and feel good about it. Because someone else has 10 accounts full of gold and rare materials stocked ahead of you.

Very server dependent.

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That’s sort of what I’m driving at albeit not as well as I would like. He wasn’t right in the sense that we should never be able to see Classic WoW ever again based solely on his thought process alone but he wasn’t totally coming out of left field with his commentary either.

As an insider with loads of information and data available to him, he had some kind of grasp on the what the majority of players wanted and expected out of their MMO and a real return to real old school gameplay wasn’t one of them. In that respect, he was on the money.

For me its just another scene out of the long twilight zone episode I call My WoW Story where one minute we are lamenting the loss of meaningful socialization, real character choices, RPG elements and every other good thing and then a minute later doing a complete 180 and revealing our true selves.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule and not an insignificant amount of them but people like us are still the exception when you account for everyone.

Ive half joked more than once that the single most nostalgic part of Classic for me has been the vocal majority demanding things they don’t need or deserve on the grounds that they need and deserve them. That will never change.

But no, I don’t think Blizzard was concerned at all about any whining over it, I think they were honestly convinced like all the other Wall of No carnival barkers that nobody really wanted to go there and even if they did, they would not want to stay. In other words, there was no real money in it (talking strictly Classic Era here) for them.

No, its not and I agree. I don’t think they’ve lived up to their promise but I cant hold them to account because we didn’t live up to ours, as far as Im concerned anyway. I don’t think its fair to criticize them without taking into account the garbage they had to work with.

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I think you both are making good and fair points but I want to comment on this…

I don’t believe this justifies JAB’s remark. You’re absolutely right, the demand for significant and game altering QoL changes came very soon on the heels of Classic’s launch. I also remember the RDF debacle, it’s actually something that still disapointments me. I thought Phase 1 WotLK without it was so good, and even though Blizzard’s reimplementation of the group finder tool was sub-par compared to retail’s, I thought it was a step in the right direction for keeping people interacting with each other for group formation and experiencing the world (per their dang design pillars at the time) but also providing a more practical and modern way of finding groups. The Classic feel felt intact but it was easier to use. But the masses revolted and whined and Blizzard caved.

Still, that’s the key word in all of this… the masses.

It’s important to remember who Vanilla was for and who was asking for it. It’s not those masses, it’s the people who remember what Vanilla was like and wanted to keep playing that. It’s the people who were already doing so on private servers and wanted an official/legitimate server to play on. They (mostly) got what they wanted and a lot of them continue to play to this day. They thought they did, and they did. It was all the people who got caught up in the hype surrounding it, who came to play expecting retail wow in a new setting but got something completely different. JAB’s statement wasn’t true for that group… Classic WoW just wasn’t for them.

So I don’t think there’s any retroactive justification at play here. For the people asking for Classic WoW in the first place, they got what they wanted. There’s also a group of people who weren’t asking for it but had forgotten how great that version was and rediscovered it. For everybody else… well, I don’t walk into the sushi restaurant across the street from me and demand fried chicken. No, I just go to the fried chicken restaurant right next door for that.

Last thing… I’m genuinely curious how the Classic Era numbers today compare to private server numbers pre-2019 when people were asking for official servers. There’s 17k (ish) people actively raiding in Era right now, which means that there’s definitely more than that when you include the non-raiders. I was never active on private servers but I seem to recall hearing that there was maybe a couple thousand, at best? I googled and it looks like Nostalrius had maybe 8000 at its low end, which should be reasonably comparable to now.

It’s tough to be certain but I do feel reasonably confident in saying that Vanilla WoW is more popular than it’s been since, well, Vanilla. There’s something to be said about that.

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How does this make any sense? If you continue to increase the amount of gold in circulation over time, there is no cap on inflation…

:woman_shrugging:

I believe they’re taking into the consideratin the incread rapidity of gold generation.

If the x-axis is time, and the y-axis is rate of inflation, increased gold generation will produce a steeper rise on the y-axis, over a shorter span on the x-axis.

Sure. I mean, it’s quite possibly the case that the rate of inflation is faster than it might be under different conditions that are not currently being experienced.

It isn’t clear that the relative costs of things, other than those that have static prices, is any different though.

:woman_shrugging:

I don’t use the auction house, so I’ll have to take the word of those who do, in the respect.

Why? They don’t know. It’s not as if they have something they can point to as a counter-example of WoW Classic that has been running for 5 years that has a different economy.

:woman_shrugging:

Im going to contradict myself for the sake of time and but Im not actually attempting to justify Brack’s remarks and besides that I don’t need to. History speaks for itself. Its really more of a commentary on the masses you and I have alluded too.

Its a simple case of the irony of it all not being lost on me. For myself, I can no longer revisit JABs accusation with the same amount of indignation as I did at the time it was spoken. I’m not on his side but I can’t rob him of any due credit just because I don’t care for him personally. Ive since stopped caring altogether.

Maybe Im dead wrong and the guy didn’t actually know what he was talking about at all and just felt like being snarky over a question he didn’t like being asked. Its plausible. I would argue against that because he did cite some specifics and there was no doubt in his conviction.

It makes no difference to me or anyone else whatsoever if Brack was completely clueless and just made a super lucky guess by accident or if he was operating from a place genuine insight on the playstyle habits of the players of the game he was in charge of (which keeps, logs and analyzes more metrics than players care to admit) - he ended up being right either way, whether I want to acknowledge it or not.

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To the contrary, Era is the only version worth playing.

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You mean like in warmane where the questing is 100% dead because of graveyard camping? Yep completely dependent

I wonder if, perhaps, you misunderstand my intent.

When JAB uttered his now infamous line he had a particular group of players in mind. From that perspective, he was absolutely right. However, that group of players isn’t who was asking for Vanilla servers and not who that version of the game was for.

From that perspective, and frankly, the perspective that matters, he was absolutely wrong.

Five years down the line, the people who the Vanilla game was for are currently playing Classic Era. Everybody else has moved on. As it should be.

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LOL that Private server is still up?

Sorry was waking up, meant whitemane lmao but yes its going still

Whitemane is really good, not sure what you’re on about.

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:blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart:

Lmao what. Era is just fine. Even on the pve mankirk cluster.

I started with nothing and got full bis without having to swipe

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