No I got it. You want to split hairs in an attempt to impugn Brack because you have a personal axe to grind.
Yeah, I can’t tell you how fortunate we were that Blizz was in danger of losing the IP ala DotA or there’s a great chance we wouldn’t be here today. One of those happy little coincidences I guess.
They actually could still be in danger of that for reasons of that its not the same product; its a mere imitation of the product. Just depends on how much the offense is willing to spend on that to pry the IP from them that they have yet to use.
I chuckled. That might be true for one of us. Good luck to you, sir! I hope you find enjoyment in whatever version of the game you land in.
Yeah, call me a prophet too I guess because I knew this was going to be your exact response. I noticed you didn’t deny it though so Im assuming the shoe fits?
If you want to have a debate over whether some dude was right or wrong you can’t refute either argument by saying its a little of both. That’s not how debates like this work, its one or the other, it can’t be both. Then logic decides. You’re on some very shaky ground there. Don’t get mad at me, that ain’t my fault. Im just the messenger.
Era isn’t here right now, today because 17k+ people wanted it that way like you’re absurdly implying as a counter to Brack’s 100% accurate and wildly prophetic portrayal of the people who said they wanted classic wow and how it played out in real time. 17k holdouts after 5 years doesn’t help you in any way.
What they got wrong (well, one of the many things) is they thought it would only be 17k players at relaunch until it fizzled down to “tens of players” (their words) and TBC would remain a happy memory.
Would it have made a difference?
It would have been consistent with the rest of the denial you’re engaged in.
That’s about what I expected… nonsense, not unlike the rest of your post.
The person JAB responded to got what they wanted out of Classic 2019, which continued into Era. End of story. Anything else is projection on your part, trying to retroactively justify an absurd statement made in haste that was later retracted. You feign at being a messenger on behalf of logic but you’ve conflated logic with opinion.
If you enjoy Era, play it. If you don’t, move on. An officially supported and legitimate server is here for those who want it, as requested in 2013, announced in 2017, released in 2019, and still being played in 2024.
It’s really that simple. Any denial happening here is on your part… and I can’t imagine why. Maybe you just wanna see the world burn?
As I said, good luck to you!
Yeah, Cataclysm “Classic” apparently since the guy asking the question didn’t specifically ask for Vanilla. He said " previous expansions". Maybe you should go watch the video on YouTube.
Guy talks about projection when he is retroactively trying to alter the real history of how Classic got here and how it played out historically to fit his sophistry.
That doesn’t make Brack incorrect. Like, what are you not getting? When JAB said “No and you dont want to do that either, you think you do but you don’t” he meant the metaphorical “you” - the subscribers/players as a whole - not the guy asking the question nor the tiny minority of people who wanted Vanilla.
The 17k people playing Era now had nothing to do with it. That’s not what got it done. If that were true, we would have had in 2013, instead of after almost an entire decade of devs and players laughing in our faces and beating us up for our lunch money.
If Blizz had their way, there would be no Classic. Thankfully, two really bad PR moves and potential constraints on being able to enforce ownership of your IP can work wonders for players who held out hope.
What Brack meant was there wasn’t a sizeable enough audience to justify relaunching the old game(s) and keeping the servers up forever because they knew what their subscriber base preferred. The numbers seem to back this up.
We recently found out WoW as a whole has something like 5 million subscribers. Ill be generous here and say Classic Era has 20k active players. Out of 5 million or so subscribers, that amounts to .4%. In other words, 99.6% of WoW subs would prefer not to play Era.
Then let me repeat myself since you missed it - we didnt even make it halfway through the reasonable enough facsimile we call Classic Era before almost half the people quit, an overwhelming majority of the other half of players made a complete mockery of the game and servers and begged for TBC on the grounds that Era sucked largely because of the lack of QoL. They got it and then 99.99% of Classic players left Era with a few hundred active players for a good long while.
The .4% of subs that exists right now are the exception to the rule, they are not the rule. They don’t validate your complete misunderstanding, they emphasize it.
The entire premise of your argument is based around the assumption that JAB was responding to the entire WoW community and that because only a very small fraction of the entire WoW community currently plays Era (which was not the case in 2019 by the way), then JAB was correct in his statement.
However your assumption is flawed.
The entire WoW community didn’t ask that question, one person did. The entire WoW community didn’t applaud that question, only a small portion of the audience did. You are making the same mistake that JAB did and assuming that you speak for everybody. You do not.
We have no way of knowing what the true active subscriber count for Era is as Blizzard doesn’t tell us. I think your 20k is a bit below the mark but it doesn’t really matter. Even with that number, Blizzard is pulling in $300k per month (or 3.6m per year) of passive income that requires almost no maintenance and developer time. That’s a pretty impressive amount.
I think this is the crux of the argument here, and it comes down to an interpretation of the words:
This is the definition of you:
" you
/yo͞o,yə/
pronoun
So that statement comes down to either explanation, to where either could be correct and, again, it’s up to our interpretation.
Nuance is how we typically process what things mean. He was answering a persons question directly.
At the very least I think that statement could have been said better if the JAB was not talking for the speaker as a person but instead was talking about the masses, he could have said the playerbase as a whole or something that was not “you”.
I explained with my first post what I didn’t like about the statement and my opinion is going to remain the same, and mine more closeless mirrors Tubblys. If you want to interpret “you think you do but you don’t” differently as in to mean the masses, and if you want to cite how Classic has gone, it’s your right.
Keep in mind though that the person who brought this up in this thread IMO did so in a way to slam Classic even existing. It gets used as a snarky attack from posters a lot.
Its not an assumption, its a patently obvious fact derived rudimentary deduction and basic logic that should go without saying but, as per usual, I’m always forced to point out the stupidly obvious that goes without saying because people are either clueless or petty. Which one are you?
Its Blizzcon with an available livestream for community members, during a Q&A with community members in front of a crowd of community members because the entirety of the event revolves around and is wholly based on community interaction and Blizzard products, in this particular case, World of Warcraft and its fanbase. Who do you, with no shred of irony or self awareness, assume he is referring too?
Brack gave a specific example - RDF. Did the questioner ask about RDF? Was there a little personal back and forth between the two parties before the question was asked where RDF came up which would give rise to a more personalized response? No. So why would he tailor his response to only a fraction of the WoW community when the community wouldn’t know he was doing and why would he do so? Why is he referencing RDF in response to a single generic question about “previous expansions” which is something they were already on record as saying they didnt want to do?
Because he was referring to the entire WoW community like common sense dictates. Not only that, he told you why they didn’t want to do it. Very few people are interested in forever unchanging permanent servers without all the QoL in comparison to their other offerings. Is he wrong? Not according to the math.
Its not even a very small fraction, its a miniscule amount by comparison - not even close to 1% - and you’re suggesting this single handedly thwarts Bracks obviously correct assertion that WoW subscribers would rather play something WoW that isn’t Era. Damn near 100% of WoW players don’t play Era and its just a massive coincidence this is totally and completely in line with what he said despite it being one of the main reasons it took so damn long to get.
That’s what Im being accused of, that’s not what’s actually transpiring. I’m doing the job of exposing all the holes and fatal flaws in your otherwise totally incoherent narrative.
If you’re not hip to current event’s like you should be you might want to do a little homework first. There was a subscriber # leak from a report like 1-2 months ago. I watched the video Bellular did on it. Including all Classic subscribers its like 5 mill total with retail. The IF pro numbers say there is around 17k people raiding weekly in Classic Era. I bumped it 20k guessing at least a few thousand non raiders and some crossover but even if it was double or triple that you’re still a long ways from even 1% of current WoW subscribers. Which thoroughly negates your “argument” not too mention the anti-assumption assumption you mind numbingly predicated it on.
Why talk about nuance if you’re just going to ignore to it in a way that’s very convenient for you? It wasn’t a personal question or answer for that matter. It was a basic question that didn’t even refer to vanilla explicitly. That wasn’t even the first time something like that was asked at a Blizzcon.
The nuance you’re looking for is the RDF reference. That’s you’re big clue right there. “You”, not to be taken literally as you (as some people are doing), is squarely aimed at ‘you the community who are interested in the answer to that question’. He’s not speaking for you. He’s telling you why they didn’t want to do it. Not enough people actually cared about vanilla in comparison to their other options (retail). That’s true of Era now in comparison to every other “classic” option except Hardcore.
They knew a small subsection of players wanted them. They’re not stupid. Pirate servers were on the go for years at that point and people have been haggling them for on the forums and such for just as long. So he clearly doesn’t mean literally no one wanted them, just at that time in particular, it wasn’t something they were interested in and why.
We just didn’t like the answer and the way it was handled. I was one of them. Ive since left off with the righteous indignation. He called our bluff and we eventually proved him right and I’m not gonna cry about it.
Its not an interpretation. Tubbs wanted to debate the question of whether Brack was right or wrong even though time has proven him empirically correct. Not with any kind of actual evidence mind you but with his opinion Brack doesn’t speak for everyone even though he wasn’t trying too and the assumption that Brack wasnt talking to the larger community even though he was doing just that.
Well, if you really wanna answer that question objectively you look at everything and when you take a harsh critical analysis of where we are right now and how we got here, the .4% of WoW subs are in no position to take offense or claim victories of any kind, moral or otherwise.
You are still free to do that however as you are undoubtedly aware.
That is like straight up Mesmer NPCs in Guild Wars 1! They are the bane!!!
I am equally frustrated with the bots and RMT demand of the credit card swiping crusaders out there. After finally progressing one character through Era PVE content to the end, I’ve taken a large step back. SoD has been a great distraction, but I do love me some Era.
Phase 6 raiding is no longer of interest to me, so that alone saves me a ton of time and sanity fighting gathering bots for the same herbs/nodes/resources.
I’ve enjoyed escaping to smaller communities and servers too. Playing the less popular faction, or just playing on ghost servers. I’m leveling new toons with the goal to max pre-raid/pre-dungeon basically. I don’t keep the official LookingForGroup channel up for long on the populated servers/factions since boosting bot spam goes unmoderated.
I’ve mostly stayed guildless too, only making select friends along the way (and those I’ve ran into have been awesome, we do fun challenging stuff together). If you join a guild on a populated server, you can almost guarantee there’s a gold seller hiding in there, and if its a raiding guild, there will be at least one credit card swiper and several RMT/GDKP supporters/defenders.
Era is what you make of it. It’s just unfortunate for those that DO want to see all the way into Naxx progression and have to contend with scammers, hackers, and immature adults (non-exclusive) on the popular servers.
I wasn’t attempting to “ignore it in a way that was very convenient to me”.
I was trying to explain to you that people can interpret things in different ways, and I was trying to say that this is ok. We all like different things and interpret things differently. The world would be pretty boring if this weren’t the case.
People were offended by that “You think you do but you don’t” statement for a reason, and that went beyond disliking the guy.
Had he stated all of that in a way that was better worded, and less open to interpretation, then people likely would have been less offended.
The thing is I’m not trying to be right and tell you that you are wrong because I don’t think you are wrong, and I don’t think that the other perspective more in line with mine is wrong either, and I do get your point about the RDF thing but also don’t consider that enough. Both interpretations can both be right at the same time.
The interesting thing is that most of the things people consider prophecies are based on broadly worded, open to interpretation, statements, to where it could be argued that they weren’t prophecies at all.
So where I will disagree with you is that this is black and white, meaning not open to interpretation at all. If something is poorly worded enough to cause a divide in the way people hear it, then that means that it’s open to interpretation, intended or not. The only way I’ll agree that this is not the case here is if there was a follow-up that I’m unaware of from JAB where he describes what was meant by him, specifically and better worded. So if that exists please let me know.
This seems to be something you are passionate about, and we all have our things. So that’s ok. However, this seems to now be coming down to either calling people emotional or unintellegent if they disagree so I’m not going to bother to debate this with you again.
Overall I respect you as a poster/player and that can’t be said for everyone. However, I just don’t see a point in continuing this conversation (although others can of course). If that means to you that you think you’ve won the debate with me or that I only think that words can be interpreted in different ways because I dislike this guy or whatever else then that’s fine.
Yea no kidding.
Instead he went on to tell us how much we couldn’t live without RDF when no RDF is exactly what we wanted!
It’s amusing though, even JAVB took back his words but Corpseknife is still sitting here trying to justify them as correct 
I’m sure Blizzard is perfectly happy with their 3.6m+ annual income for little to no effort.
I tend to agree with Corpseknife that it was likely meant as you (the players that are asking for it). Then if not, more importantly maybe, that is how it was interpreted by the player base and why it became a popular meme. It would not have much meaning otherwise.
What I do not agree is that classic was any sort of failure.
Yeah it fell off after the phases ran their course. But it was wildly popular, players wanted it and paid lots of money for it. I am guessing the metrics say that our they would not have kept going. You can’t fairly judge it by a metric of forever having high subs.
But it could have steady or growing subs if blizzard invited new players into vanilla Azeroth and help tell the world a story of a game that is inviting and fun for new players.
It is hard to grow when many visit the chaos that is retail and that is part of their early experience.
Vanilla is so much more approachable, they would be wise to push vanilla first because its so addictive.
I got no problem with that if you just want to throw your two cents in but if you want to have a who is right who is wrong debate like Tubbs then that’s a different discussion. Tubbs (who you agree with) went there and I have a right to defend my position - which isn’t based on anything related to personal interpretations, feelings or assumptions.
Someone said looks like Brack was right after all, you simply stated that his comments didnt resonate with you (me neither at the time), I responded to you by essentially saying, I hear you but he wasn’t wrong. Tubbs engaged me saying I was pretty much wrong for “justifying” Bracks comments even though Im not doing that. Im just noting they were justified based on precisely what he meant, what happened and where we are now.
Brack’s basically saying, by using the RDF reference in a response to a question about older expansions, “we’re not interested because the larger WoW community isn’t interested in that” and when you do your homework, it turns out way more people rather play a version of WoW that isn’t Era.
Not in this debate.
Not everything related to the convo is black and white but debates have winners and losers and so someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong. I made my case. Tubbs thinks there is some silver bullet technicality somewhere since they believe its not clear who Brack is referring too when its obvious he is talking to the whole community or at least the portion of them that want to know the answer.
Just because you prefer Era you are not exempt or separate from the broader community. You are the exception inside the broader community. Being an exception to the rule doesn’t negate the rule.
Im not suggesting or even implying Classic was a failure. That’s a different conversation. I just found it funny that Brack was shooting down the idea of rereleasing vanilla on the grounds of peoples preference for QoL (RDF in particular) and putting aside everything until Wraths announcement, watching a literal 99% of the vocal majority lose their collective minds at the idea there would be no RDF at a time where Era only had hundreds of players.
This is about whether Brack was vindicated or not and I think if we’re being honest with ourselves, we have the answer.
He was correct. You just can’t handle it. The mere fact that the overall Classic community would rather play freakin’ Cataclysm than Era is proof positive you’re huffing some really cheap copium.