I think that is listed as one of the many factors to get around it. but thats an expensive venture to be poping every buff for a dungeon. 
Then the argument now becomes viability vs. optimization.
Lol what? Been tanking since 17/18 in prot with a 2h, I swap to my shield and sword now and then when it’s required of me (if i need to mitigate properly) but for straight up threat and rage generation, it’s great.
This. Hybrid specs as DPS are viable also. So which is it? (Not you, but people in general). You can’t be a part of the “Hybrid specs aren’t viable” camp but also be part of the “2H warrior tanks are.”
Neither are optimal. But both can work.
People are such hypocrites.
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A mage could tank at lvl 20.
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Rofl, firstly, this is an alt, secondly, it’s 44, it just hasn’t updated. Seen many herod shoulders on a 20? And thirdly, my main is a 60 warrior on horde (re rolled to play with friends) who again I tanked from 17/18 to 60 with a 2h whilst swapping to 1h/shield when needed. But good try.
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No, bud. You said:
I never told you to get good at the spec. You’re a Druid. Telling you to get good at a spec you can’t even play is nonsensical.
Skarm I’m aware of, at least. He dual-wield tanks.
And 2H tanking. Congratulations, you can read the title.
Now read what you said and what I said in reply.
It’s relevant to all levels.
Yep. Because I’ve healed dual-wield tanks, and they’re much, much better than sword and board for dungeons.
It’s done in all group compositions. It has absolutely nothing to do with “spellcleave.”
Uh, no. The dungeons are not that hard. You don’t need full T1 to clear a dungeon. The dungeons are designed to be cleared by a bunch of morons from 2004-2006 wearing greens and blues.
Do you really thing the gearing progression in Classic is questing -> MC -> dungeons?
Which means it’s not real! /s
Wrong. It’s a thing now.
Read what I said again, buddy.
I gave the option for the blame to be laid at any role’s feet depending on the circumstances.
You like this word, too.
No real argument? Just “cringe” and “yikes.”
That’s fine:
If your metric for tank is how much damage they take.
If I wear nothing but Agility, Armor, Defense, and Dodge, I’ll take very little damage. I’m, in your view, an objectively superior tank.
However, I’ll never gain enough rage to attack. My attacks are weaker and generate less threat. I’ll, objectively, deal less damage and have a harder time holding aggro.
The DPS take more damage than myself, so they get hit much harder. Healer has a harder time healing 4 people at once, especially when 3 of them aren’t supposed to be taking much, if any, damage, but they’re taking tons of damage.
Now let’s say I halve my armor, get 10% crit, and 400 attack power. I take more damage, yes, but I have more rage. The mobs die faster. The mobs stay clumped and ONLY attack me. Healer can easily use mana efficient heals to keep the ONE person taking damage alive.
The role of tank isn’t to just reduce your damage taken.
You’ve always been an aggro-focused DPS who doesn’t die when being attacked. That’s pretty much the role of a tank, and has been since vanilla.
Depends on the circumstances. I’d like to see you hold aggro against people doing 1-2k DPS on trash pulls.
Now if you’re playing the old, outdated way, CCing every mob, marking the targets, taking 5 minutes per pull, single-targeting down the mobs one at a time so the healer can basically AFK the whole fight, yeah, you should be able to hold aggro with a shield.
You’re saying that a DW/2H tank failed to adapt while trash talking an adaptation. Are you aware of how dumb that sounds?
This tanking style is adapting.
Yet the DW/2H tanks are better at their role, and healers who can’t heal them are blaming the tank.
Asmongold was copying other people doing it well before he was, though. He only tried it because everyone else was telling him to.
So… it’s the superior tanking spec, but bad players can’t pull it off. Sounds about right.
Therefore it doesn’t exist! /s
Because the healer basically sits around doing nothing for the majority of the time otherwise, and the dungeons can dramatically sped up by utilizing a strategy that makes them spend their mana to actually heal the tank (instead of the DPS that pull aggro).
You could probably DW tank raids if you had pre-raid BiS for it. Tanks get hit much harder in raids than in dungeons. The issues of holding aggro aren’t nearly as much of a concern when you can’t even spend all your rage.
And in a 40 man raid environment, the tank doesn’t need to do exceedingly high amounts of DPS, because they’re got the DPS to do that for them. The individual responsibility of each player is lower.
Furthermore, longevity of the healer’s mana is more of a concern, because the fights are longer. DW/2H tanking works in dungeons because the healer can spend some mana on a 10 second fight, then drink after 2-3 pulls.
If the healers have to heal that much more for over a minute, they’ll likely go OOM. That just doesn’t happen in dungeons. Hell, it doesn’t happen in raids much. As the fights get shorter, the need for tanks to mitigate damage goes down with it.
The fastest Shazzrah kills, for example, are under 30 seconds. You could easily dual-wield tank that fight.
Sorry, but no, this is happening widespread in Classic. It’s not just a private server thing, anymore.
That helps, but isn’t necessary.
Of course hybrid DPS specs are viable. They’re not optimal.
DW/2H tanking is optimal in many circumstances, namely for dungeon tanking.
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I don’t have to try anything buddy, im the healer, I get to pick and choose my tanks/groups. “but good try”
Bottom line is play what you want, its not my account.
Considering that Shield slam wasn’t a viable thing until 1.7?/1.8?'ish… Most tanks for Arms/Prot anyway to begin with. Nothing wrong with Arms/Prot and Fury Prot while tanking while leveling and in raids.
Most smart tanks know when to swap to sword and board as it were, e.i. Oh crap, pulled a bit too many, shield time.
Other then that, threat seems to be the key of runs for raids and dungeons. If a healer can keep up, and 99% do without going oom until several pulls in, then DPS tanking does just fine.
Why the hell would you be dual wielding in Tier 1 at any point?
You need 9% hit to effectively DW, and Might gear is horribly itemized for that purpose. Even worse if you’re talking about DW as Fury specifically, cause you have garbage crit to roll flurry uptime.
Basically no DPS warrior who knows what they’re doing will ever take T1 pieces, with the exception of maybe bracers and gloves, and there are far better pieces than those for DPS.
Now 2h tanking in Might is a bit more reasonable. I don’t have full Might, but I do have a tanking set with ~420 Defense (20 shy of soft cap to be uncrittable) that I use to regularly 2h tank lvl 60 5 man content with with little strain on the healer (multiple pulls no drinking) while maintaining better threat, and faster clear times due to increased damage output.
The real problem, are the DPS “tanks” who run into dungeons trying to do the same thing, but while still wearing their DPS leathers and mail pieces, which makes them get demolished by the mobs, and/or demolishes the healer’s mana pool in turn.
This is more about people being bad, not the strategy itself being bad. The strategy is sound, if you do it properly. Properly means wear plate and stack defense.
I also still have a shield and 1h on macro for quick swapping during emergencies when there’s an overpull or on particularly hard hitting packs/bosses.
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With dps pulling like dps pull, right off the bat and without waiting for the tank to get aggro, tanking with a 2h or dual wield really is a great way to go, way more threat upfront, and then the dps can go ham, it’s really not as big of an issue as you’re making it.
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That’s fine, boot me. I’ll go tank for the next group while you wait another hour on your tank. You sound like a lazy healer. Hate to have someone like you in my group.
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Sword and board actually does more threat for more than 1 target. Single target two hand has more aggro but with just 1 mob youll hold it fine with 1 hand asd well.
Found it much easier to get initial aoe threat by charging in with my 2h, WW off the bat and then swapping to D stance and sundering each target, then i’ll swap to my 1h/shield, generally threat doesn’t drop after that
i can’t believe i almost fell for this bait
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Again, if you are playing properly you get get better aggro from your abilities like revenge which should be up almost constantly and does a lot of aggro. Between sunder, taunt, revenge, shield bash, battle shout, you should have 0 problem holding threat. When i get home ill link to a site that shows threat numbers per ability. If your having to get most of your threat from your dps your doing it wrong because not only is that the wrong kind of threat to want, bit its also taking from your damage mitigation.
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You did fall for it and had to delete your comment.
it was a mocking reply that i realized I could get in trouble for
Look here’s the thing i’m a great healer! I can carry a 2H “tank”. But it just slows down the run. your going to take so much damage that i’m going to have to hit my mana hard to keep you alive which means downtime between pulls and a stressful run for me. Or you could realize this isn’t BFA put on yer damn shield and tank 1 group at a time, using CC as necessary and we can have a nice fun smooth run with no downtime.
When the run is over were all happy, and we probably added each other to our friend lists too. Or I can have a stressful run and put you on my ignore list.
But the biggest reason is that hard 5-mans are coming for tanks 50+. Its better you learn how to tank properly now so your not learning how to play your class at 55…
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I use a shield, but have seen, do see, instances where it is just as good, if not better to 2h in SOME situations.
Lastly, who the hell is anyone to be telling another how to play their class. Group with them, or don’t. None of you, us , have any authority on that matter, unless you yourself have a superiority , elitist complex. Then you probably THINK you do.
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