You know what would have really helped with this? If they had added dual spec.
When I started playing in wrath I tanked almost exclusively I gave that up long ago because I don’t want to deal with the sort of people in groups that expect the world from you with no respect. Even now when I’ve considered swapping once I think of all the problems and pugs and people having no patience I’m like nope not going to deal with them.
Let’s not lose perspective on what “it” means. That adding dual spec would increase the number of tanks (in a way that we have yet to specify as being measurable and/or meaningful).
In your opinion. I’m not even saying I disagree with you on this, but it’s thus far unsubstantiated.
And even if we assume that if people can do something they will do something_, that doesn’t mean that this will increase the overall number of tanks actively tanking instances.
Reread our conversation before you assert to tell me what I’m confusing.
I would definitely tank more if there was dual spec. But right now, I’m saving gold for riding and flipping back and forth, dps to tank and back, is too expensive.
Once again it’s not my opinion, there are 100% people who can do and would tank if they can without respeccing. And if a single person decides to tank who otherwise wouldn’t it has improved the situation and I doubt the group that got a tank and the subsequent groups that get a tank that much sooner think it isn’t measurable or meaningful.
You are confusing it as soon as you state that improving the number of tanks available by even a little isn’t meaningful.
It is so long as there is nothing to support it.
That doesn’t necessarily mean there will be more tanks. Nor does it mean that dual spec will not cause any people who are currently tanks to spend time not tanking.
Of course, this depends on how we decide to measure what “more tanks” means.
Wrath was a really nice time for instances, imo, due to DK tanks and the popularity of the class.
In addition part of the problem is that tanking is literally a thankless job. People expect you to automatically know everything as well as go as fast as they feel you could be able to because everyone is in a rush. God forbid you slow down a little or want to take your time because you are not intimately familiar with dungeons that you haven’t done in 14 years.
Who would put up with that? Especially since somebody already stated at the end game it’s reversed so even if you like tanking there’s no point in staying one since encounters were never designed with more than a few.
Well it isn’t my opinion. So whose opinion is it that you seem to have?
Again… even assuming this is true (which you have yet to establish), it doesn’t actually support the point you are making to the effect that it is “100% true” (or even just “true”).
If absolutely nothing else changed, and you went from having say 9 tanks available to 10 tanks available, then sure. That would be an increase in number of tanks available. Especially if we didn’t have to care about anything else, and availability of tanks was a binary thing (on/off) that had no other conditions that would affect it.
And even if that were the case, what you’re stating is your opinion.
But… that isn’t the case.
And really, this conversation is seemingly not going anywhere meaningful without us defining how precisely we would measure tank availability, how we would gather data, and being able to execute on those things.
It’s not an opinion at all, it’s simply reality.
All I have to do is find one example of someone doing it for it to be true. Oh wait I tanked some ramps groups last night because I could. And I’m hardly the only person who does so now as feral or who did and would do so with dual spec.
Case in point.
It’s actually better than just adding another available tank, it also removes said person from the dpsers looking for a tank.
Perhaps that’s your reality.
You’re only viewing this as an additive possibility.
Purely anecdotal, but sure. Let’s give it to you! +1
Does it? What does? Dual spec does this? Are you sure?
What about the reverse of this? Is it possible?
There’s no point in arguing with anti-dual spec trolls. Frosto is especially dedicated to it.
Run in a guild team. I log in on our assigned time and belt out chain dungeon runs. It’s nice. Already 65 while the same dudes are still 61 spamming in lfg for a tank for their ramps/bf run
Ad Hominem.
Dual spec was never a good solution, and that it didn’t last for very long sort of supports that.
I did spend some time thinking about defining some problems, and then thinking through what might be some solutions for them, and dual spec didn’t come to mind.
Of course, you may have something better to contribute to this conversation than some ad hominen, and I’ll hope that you do.
I don’t contribute to feeding trolls. Screech all you like.
That’s definitely a learning curve to be sure, and while doing the grind in Outlands there are definitely gear disparities that make holding aggro a touch difficult. I’m in more or less BiS lvl60 gear as a Druid and Warriors rocking Hungering Cold and similar weapons are near impossible to hold off if they WW too early. Meanwhile even super well geared Hunters and Mages are easy to hold off unless they just hit AoE as I’m running in.
With a few exceptions, so long as no one is dying and running everywhere, melee taking a few hits isn’t the end of the world. However, it is VERY frustrating as a new Tank to manage that. Slave Pens will be a lovely training ground for all three roles if no CC is used.
Eh… dual spec lasted for several expansions and was eventually just changed to all specs available. I’d say it worked quite well, one of the changes that actually did.
this is absolutely not true.
yes, incompetent tank or healer can ruin a dungeon run, but tanks/healers can’t carry the group, well ok in easy game like tbc it is possible to some extend but still.
when dps are pulling their weight tanks/healers are totally getting carried, so no, the hardest roll in pve is actually dps.
p.s. no, I am not a dps player
I honestly enjoy the challenge of pug tanking…like rolling the dice…and I have more fun I think when just getting through sometimes requires MAXIMUM EFFORT
…some of the least engaging periods (imo) were when heroics got so easy and mundane that there was no danger or risk in even any pug…like in WOTLK before the ICC heroics.
As a tank, I can’t remember ever being treated poorly by a group…with the one exception where the jerks kicked me for trying to run back and escort some relative newb that died in Pit of Saron? (the ICC instance with the big open-air mining pit)
As dps, I don’t remember seeing much shade thrown at tanks
…I think this bit about tank abuse is sometimes overdone/exaggerated. It happens, for sure, but just doesn’t seem very prevalent or severe, in my experience.
Most tanks are beholden to the guilds that geared them in the first place. High quality tanks are like high value men, everyone wants one but not everyone can have them. The best are already taken, often you have to settle.
exactly. roll a tank and help the cause.