Yeh, I agree with you about just fixing Warmode now.
Its just hard not to argue against the people that are so against PVP realms haha.
Like all of these problems, and many more, could be resolved by Blizz reducing or even removing the price of Server Xfers.
Moving to a low pop realm, reduced price.
Faction changing to the less populated Faction on the server, reduced price.
etc etc.
I think realms just need looked at and overhauled in general though…
They kept adding more and more as bandaid fixes for realms being overburdened, and now theres just a ton of dead ones.
And when they launched classic, did they learn from that and have a new solution? Nah, they just added more servers there as well. Its a mess.
But im going off on a tangent…
The list of additions/changes to the game that damaged world pvp is long, let me try:
- Flying
- Battlemasters
- Sanctuaries
- LFD teleporting
- Heirlooms
- Ranged max level guards in every town that shoot through walls (from cataclysm)
- LFR teleporting
- Queue for anything from anywhere and be teleported
- Phasing
- Gear discrepancy between PvP & PvE gear in the open world. (MoP)
- Connected realms
- Sharding (Legion)
- War mode hopping abuse
I’ve even missed a bunch of smaller things like dishonourable kills and unattackable NPCs.
Server population mismanagement, faction transfers, also massive blows to the game based on laziness and greed.
The weight of all these world-damaging changes to the game has suffocated the open world and world pvp to the point that while people may still technically be able to engage in world pvp it’s absolutely meaningless in retail today.
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Because it’s like checking in on a hobby you used to enjoy but lost interest in.
And the blatant refusal to accept reality is good for when I’m in the mood to be easily amused.
Agreed.
I LOVE Warmode and do not at all think it is the problem. It’s the thing that literally officalized world pvp so I def do not think removing it would be good.
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Officialized WPVP? Lolno.
Its ultimately dismantled wpvp. Especially any kind of slowly building up organic wpvp, thats not just zergs. It along with cross realm communities really messed up WPVP.
It could have “officialized” it, but like most new features with Blizz it gets introduced and then they stop adding or doing anything with it…
Sucks talking about this stuff because I feel like most people that play now started playing in Legion or sooner and just dont know what we had before. Or if they did play before, never really WPVP’d back then either.
Im ok with Warmode staying, it just needs some work done to it.
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What you keep talking on is subjective and I disagree.
I and others are happy with Warmode and would love more resources to be put to it. I don’t think it’s perfect (nothing is), but I don’t think it was also the downfall of wpvp.
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The main demographic of wow players are still legacy players from that generation. Yes people have left the game, but not because they grew up. Because the game did.
The game grew up and became a Cat Stevens version of itself. Or like… Hank Williams Jr. All My Rowdy Friends Have Settled Down.
Its not that we dont have time for grinding gear or rep. Thats all the game has time for, so we take what we can get. Gone are the days where we could call up our old pal WoW to see what kind of trouble we could get into. Now we have a schedule to keep. Theres a never ending list of work to do. There’s no best in slot gear, only best for now… this week, and all WoW has time for is making sure we get it so we can feel viable. But, you know… if you want to do some world PvP, WoW will see if it can fit you in. He’ll have his people call your people.
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You may subjectively like Warmode. But it is objectively bad design. Objectively, the unintended consequences of the design philosophy behind warmode are a cancer on any virtual world.
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Are there still people who believe outside of organized events, that WPvP wasn’t just a zerg fest? I remember zerg fights back in Vanilla… in fact outside of playing maybe a rogue, there wasn’t any organic small scale that didn’t evolve into a giant zerg fight.
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You mean to tell me splitting the player base up between more and more instances and phases was bad!??
That giving folks the option to opt out of the bad parts of WPVP, just meant WPVP never happened at all now???
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Before Legion and the communities and removal of world defense, yes. Every day.
You could go to Darkshire, Crossroads, Hellfire Peninsula or Halaa and just find people hanging out wanting to WPVP.
Fights rarely got bigger than 5-10 on each side.
And if they did it was rare and only like 20 on each team.
With world defense you could go ping random quest hubs and usually a couple folks would come defend.
It was fun. I miss it.
Like I said earlier, it’s folks that didn’t ever really WPVP trying to talk about it…
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Maybe on ED, but not on any of the servers I was on.
Yeah, maybe on ED. On other servers it would be groups of 5 people who once wiped would call in 20-30 more people.
Maybe on ED.
Yeah, it was.
You’re looking at it from the perspective of Emerald Dream. I have played on multiple servers since vanilla, and rarely was there anything approaching the things ED players talk about. Zerging was prevalent as small scale throughout the game’s history. War Mode itself is what ruined wpvp, not communities or zerging.
I didn’t play on ED until BFA.
Only ever went there a couple times during legion.
Played on Hyjal, Illidan, Bleeding Hollow, Shadow song, Wildhammer though.
Dont know what your realm is or was, but it wasn’t the norm by far.
Something else subjective is the opinion you gave.
Just cause someone thinks differently than you, does not make them wrong.
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Let me rephrase this.
Warmode is not an intentional plank of WoWs design philosophy. This makes it inferior to the previously intentional pvp server design (in a perfect world).
Warmode is an attempted solution to a number of problems that arose from a cocktail of other bad design choices(sometimes the lesser evil). Shards (for example) exist to solve hardware and zone population issues. WoW devs didnt say “You know what would be awesome? Lets destroy the community of every server by ensuring people see an almost random assortment of other players from a collection of different servers every time they log in, making every player beholden to our matchmaking interface to complete all this content we tried to make more accessible!” No. They didnt do that. They scrambled to fix regular server crashes and general unplayablility, and coupled that with making dead zones (a result of unsustainable design) seem more alive. PvP servers made that harder to do to the fullest extent . That is the type of thing that led to warmode.
I dont think any developer from Blizzard would tell you that Warmode was good design. Its a bandaid to a wound Blizzard themselves created.
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I think your opinion can be proven wrong quite easily though.
Like it’s not a matter of liking a song or not.
Warmode is a proven failure with little to no engagement in it’s current state. Just fact.
If a opinion is an actual opinion then it can’t be proven wrong cause it’s completely subjective. Y’all not liking what I have to say about Warmode does not invalidate others or I current opinion of it - including not wanting it removed.
I’ve been commenting on Warmode in and of itself from my opinion. Which is valid. I never spoke on its engagement. I would love to see the numbers you have to back up such a statement. As well as proof of it being a factual failure.
This isn’t that perfect world though. You continue to spew your opinion. Unlike y’all I don’t care about forcing my opinion on others. This is a public forum after all.
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It had the potential to be the best change for WPvP, but certainly wasn’t.
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…are you serious or are you just trolling?
Have ya played in the last decade in what used to be actual wpvp?