Coming back from death is not possible in hardcore, preventing death is the goal and anything that helps to prevent it, which is available in some way to all, is allowable.
Petri flask doesn’t violate the spirit or rules of hardcore because it doesn’t bring you back from death. You might as well say everything in game that heals or protects from damage needs to be removed.
How is this making any difference? You already cannot do anything for the duration of the flask (1 minute), and you most likely had to pop it in a bad spot so, having a 5-10 minute cooldown means when you unpetrify, you are likely dead based on your location. It could be that people get a “Recently Petrified” debuff much like Forebearance, so people can’t spam petri flasks but also not so long that they are unpetrifying into certain death.
Dungeon teleport is fine as is, but the penalty for exiting an unfinished dungeon should be significant/in-line with the coward debuff for leaving a duel. I say this because at any point, a group it may become obvious the group is not ready and everyone wants to leave to avoid death so, it helps to allow that teleport out just in case someone has a hearthstone still on CD.
As for bubble hearth, only pallys had access to that and it is way too powerful a tool so it makes sense to take the option out of hardcore.
Sounds like a griefer’s dream! Hope I never encounter you or anyone that shares your “leaving a dungeon gives you giant penalty”. Here, let me simplify this for you: rogue pulls all the mobs, do you A. remain in dungeon to die or B. get the cowardly debuff that lasts for days and more.
So, getting debuffed for cowarding out of duels is fine with you but the same with dungeons is a road too far? That’s some insane mental gymnastics to justify the hypocrisy.
I don’t think you understand what the word “hypocrisy” means. A simple example of a hypocrite: a person that preaches veganism and eats a burger every day, I couldn’t care less about stupid duels to the deaths, and the cowardly debuff has never been in WoW until it was introduced in hardcore. Why the blank would I want to choose between the cowardly debuff or death because some idiot tried to grief the dungeon party? The choice has always been die or leave, not die or get stupid non-sense debuff that never existed until 10 minutes ago. I am surprised you didn’t want to extend the cowardly debuff for anyone that ran away from any mob, let alone in any dungeon. Have a nice day, griefer.
I don’t see how debuffing people that ditch out on dungeon or raid groups is griefing. You don’t seem to understand what griefing is.
In fact, I am the first person that will advocate for leaving a group if it is being manged poorly in hardcore. However, to cut down on potential ACTUAL griefers, it makes sense to have a deserter debuff that equals the cowardly debuff for duels.
You have every right to leave, but people will abuse that right in group content, and we know very well people love to cause chaos and will via ditching groups in the hopes it causes a wipe. So, the debuff will at least prevent a good amount of that issue.
As for me using “hypocrisy” correctly, I did so in the context of what I said.
You can’t “pop petris like candy”, but if that were the case, you might as well say gear is an unfair advantage since gold buyers can just get the best gear crafters can make.
I am not sure how my previous post was not clear. Here, let me repeat myself, as you have presented yourself not only a griefer but have some reading and/or cognitive difficulties.
Yes, that is what all the griefers would want. As it currently stands, there is no penalty for avoiding someone’s attempt at griefing groups by pulling entire dungeons and getting out before anyone realizes what happens. With what you want, and every other griefer wants, at least the players get the stupid debuff when the griefer fails to kill the players because the players noped out of the dungeon. Also, exiting an unfinished dungeon is a crime in WoW? Since when? Again, I would ask about what part of this you don’t understand but you are a special kind of special and I will leave it at that.
No, you didn’t. Your point was that I wanted to have the stupid debuff for running away from duels but not have any debuff for running away from dungeons. Let me be clear, I do not care about duels. If someone wants to run away from a duel, it’s the job of the other person to catch them would be my default stance. How does that make me a hypocrite when I want nothing to do with your debuff that occurs when people are exiting a dungeon, especially if a griefer is trying to get everyone killed? As I mentioned previously, you are a special kind of special.
You don’t understand what a griefer is and should stop using the term.
Yes, I did.
YOU are a hypocrite because you want to be able to ditch a dungeon without repercussion. If you need to save your life, go for it, I would do the same, but to expect zero penalty for leaving is asinine. Retail has a deserter debuff and cowardly is used across all flavors, so, what makes hardcore PvE so special? Nothing. The mode is all about consequences for your actions and a debuff for leaving an unfinished dungeon fits that theme.
As for your childish insults, I’ll let the mods decide what to do.
Why should everyone die or eat a stiff penalty because one person wants to troll? If such a penalty were implemented you would immediately see complaints from people who got griefed or can no longer pug safely.
While you may not be a griefer, you’re failing to see what the very obvious outcomes would be.
What the blank are you talking about? When some griefer tries to kill everyone in the party, their choice is ditching the dungeon or dying. You want people to get penalized for escaping the grief. I am not against people trying to survive attempts of grief without getting the stupid debuff, but you are clearly trying to grief people. You still don’t know what the word hypocrisy is.
Not sure what that’s supposed to mean. I didn’t insult you. I was making an observation. Sorry if you got offended.
Is this something that happens often? How often do you group with someone that risks their life to pull half the instance just to kill people?
Whether it happens often or not, removing petri would fix that too since they couldn’t just pull the dungeon, and petri themselves to petri-check the rest of the group.
You clearly haven’t seen the vast amount of hardcore videos of dungeon wipes, and people leaving. It’s sometimes difficult to tell whether someone was trying to grief or it was a bad pull.
So, this isn’t even an issue you have experienced, it’s just you watching streamers and assuming it’s a problem. Dude, that crap is done intentionally so people like you will eat it up. It isn’t a widespread or even occasional problem. JFC.
You are advocating for zero consequence to ditching a dungeon. So, let’s clear this up right now:
Groups can fail for both, someone over-pulling and using a petri-flask AND for people just ditching because they feel like it. Whether either is a grief, mistake, or the result of a glitch, groups can end in wipes from either.
By instituting a debuff for just dropping a dungeon, you prevent a good deal of the unnecessary ditching. For those that need to leave group as it is life or death, they should, but they are steal subject to the debuff.
With your side of this, there should be zero consequence for ditching a group which means if you make all these adjustments to petri’s, these griefers you are so worried about can still cause chaos by ditching after causing a mass pull and dropping threat.
All you are advocating for is a shift in the way dungeon groups are griefed, not a real solution.
No, I’m not. The coward debuff exists for pvp, the deserter debuff exists in other modes for group pve. Hardcore should be no different. That isn’t “griefing”, a word you obviously don’t understand alongside “hypocrite/hypocrisy”, it’s called consequences for your actions.
I thought we were having a discussion. Just because you misapply terms and I call you on it doesn’t make me a troll. It does seem you spend an inordinate amount of time attacking the person and not the idea. If you are so sure of your stance on the subject matter, why attack me in the first place?
I stand by my statements. A deserter debuff for dungeons (just like that which exists in other flavors of WoW) makes sense for hardcore and would help with whatever imagined “griefing” you are talking about. If you disagree, that’s fine, you don’t have to agree. But continuously accusing people of being “griefers” or “trolls” just because they disagree with you is the wrong way to make any sort of point.