But matching premades vs premades and pugs vs pugs isn’t special treatment.
It’s merely what any decent match making system would do. This wasn’t as much of an issue in vanilla as it is in classic, which is why it would be very much inline with other changes that have already been made to address it.
The only people getting special treatment are premades being matched against pugs and it’s extremely hypocritical of you to not call them out for that.
I’m not explaining it again, scroll up
So basically you can’t and you just want to keep the current system in place so you keep getting your free wins.
Statement 1: we want vanilla back because blizzard changes end up ruining the fun we once had
Statement 2: now that we have vanilla back we want you to start changing it.
blizzard employees probably have a great time reading these threads.
you think you do, but you dont
Which Vanilla didn’t have.
Wrong- maybe on your server, but on my Vanilla server one faction did nothing but guild premades, and the other didn’t- so literally every match was extremely one sided until xrealm BGs came out.
Premades stomping pugs is what my, and many others, experience with Vanilla WoW pvp was. Grats on having it easy back then but what’s happening now is really no different, other than AV being so massively lopsided- but that one favours you so of course that’s not a problem.
BTW, good job on making the game better by removing premades in AV- brought the number of games at a time from 500+ at its peak to a dozen in mere months. Definitely a solid sign that removing premades makes the game ‘better’ when everyone stops playing the moment they’re gone.
Actually it did, what do you think happens when you click join BG?
Not decent matchmaking- if it were, you wouldn’t be whining so hard.
This thread is getting long.
Separate the Qs already. Only people that dont want it are just dense no changes people. Your game has been changed more times than I can count. Have you seen the recent wargames LOL?
What!?!? AV isnt bad because the premades left it’s bad because the map is sooooooo imbalanced that it’s literally impossible for alliance to leave the spawn cave when the game starts. Horde start right outside the cave because blizz loves horde, you didn’t know?
Or idk people who like playing the game with friends and don’t think solo players should get a free pass. If you get a seperate queue you should get zero honor or rep.
You don’t think that won’t be hotfixed out?
I like doing both, thing is solo Q is broken in 2020 classic.
No, its already being touted as a way to hold tournaments by streamers, and large name guilds are enjoying it. I imagine they will capitalize on it rather then get rid of it. I don’t see any threads demanding it gets taken out. I see a lot of threads about fixing pug stomping premades though.
It sure has.
Like when we got day one free xfers- that destroyed Stalagg/Skeram/HS balance and ruined the servers.
Like layering- which ruined the economy by letting exploiters get a stranglehold on the most valuable commodities, as well as get full preBIS by layering inside dungeons, skipping hundreds of hours of clearing to late bosses by simply farming the one boss you need over and over and over.
Like the big AV changes- which brought a BG with relatively close win rates, 100s of games at a time- to barely a dozen matches, meaning a staggering 90% drop in players, as well as seeing win rates so bad players using mods were showing under 1% win rates over 100s of games played after the changes, and saw Horde queues rocket from under 30min to upwards of 4-5 hours according to Hordies on the forums.
The game has changed far too much- and it’s always horrible. The real question is- how is anyone still dense enough to think more and more changes is a good idea?
You’re bound for disappointment. Give Blizzard a few working days.
lol, no it wasnt. Most games ended in 6 min zergs to drek.
Because they made far fewer servers to start with and then mismanaged the xfers. Paid xferes have always been ok.
I’ll agree on that one.
I however enjoyed them breaking the AV exploit meta (yes, using a 3rd party system to exploit instant Qs in an exploit).
Also liked them changing the scoreboard to prevent scouting.
I’m not complaining that I can group with 4 other friends in AV.
You can argue that the ways they have handled the changes deemed necessary has been poor. It’s hard to argue that something wasn’t needed.
lol
I don’t disagree. Those are a cool ways to have organized competition between top guilds and tournaments. 40v40 AV premades would be cool not gunna lie. But afaik wargames are essentially exhibition games and I assume would not reward honor. If they did you could just have guild form “loser groups” to farm honor all day uncontested.
That being said. Pug stomping has been and always will be the best way to farm honor. If solo queuers get a free pass then people who like to queue with friends will be the sole source of honor for rankers. How is that fair to them? If you want honor you brave the ranking premades like everyone else. It’s not “fair” but it’s classic pvp.
They just did it again, ruining more servers- EF, NW, Incend, etc… Maybe the first time it was them making mistakes, but now they’re using the community’s embracing of change to actively destroy servers.
If only someone had said if you give retail Blizz the go ahead as a community to make changes they’d abuse it. Oh wait, that’s literally what we have been saying since before launch.
No, maybe the ones with top tier Alliance premades did, which supposedly is a small portion of the community- but the average premades were just people on comms that could kick out AFKers- and the entire first months had plenty of Horde bragging about their >50% win rates.
Furthermore, we didn’t see a huge decline in players on either side, because matches were relatively fair and queue times stable. Once it went to 99% wins for Horde, something actually supported by mods that track that, there was a massive fall in participation.
Perhaps you enjoy that, as it is guaranteed easy wins every time you get an AV- but most people don’t look at a massive dip in participation, and a completely one sided win rate in a game and think that it’s fine.
Vanilla wasn’t a perfect game, it had a tonne of flaws to it. But as you yourself just demonstrated many people have different views on what those flaws were.
Horde may consider AV without 100% win rates to be a flaw, and will of course defend the changes forever- but I assure you most Alliance players didn’t want changes that’d leave a BG unplayable.
In this case, it benefited you- but what if they start making changes that don’t?
The pvp system in Vanilla was terrible, forcing players to devote months of their life to it, with people reporting 18hours/day for weeks straight since if you don’t you not only can’t progress, you would even go backwards.
It’s not only a bad system that can’t work with people with normal lives- it straight up is unhealthy on a literal basis.
We had half a year of just MC, a raid where everything is tank and spank.
The game has major flaws- but the point of this wasn’t to create a retail version of Vanilla- or at least, we didn’t think it was. If we’d known that was the goal I’m sure a lot of players wouldn’t have bothered.
So it’s easy to argue against changes- nobody can agree on what to change, and every change makes someone happy and someone else pissed off.
Shall we get rid of premade BGs and bring in solo queues for those that don’t want to find a group to get the top end pvp gear? Why not give us a solo raid queue for those that don’t want to find a group to get the top end pve gear? You know there’s a lot of people that want LFD/LFR.
I’m sure for every change you think is necessary- I can bring up a change you would never want to happen, yet someone else would adore.
And even if, somehow, a significant amount of players could agree on changing something- retail Blizzard cannot do it properly.
The problem with AV is they released the nerfed race to the finish line version while not accounting for the disparity in population. This led to two major problems. You had the horde who did not pve Zerg race because the queue times were too long. Then you had the alliance forming premades while the long queues wouldn’t allow the horde to do the same. This was not in issue in Vanilla and yet it needed to be addressed.
Solo queuers don’t get a free pass. You realize only one side wins in a pug vs pug game right? Just like in a premade vs premade game.
The only people getting a free pass are premades being matched against pugs.
No, they are mishandling the xfers. Saying its intentional because people are ok with changes has nothing to do with it.
Q times were about an hour long and the win rate for horde was well below 50%. I know I was there through it all unfortunately. Majority of games were a <10min loss. Some were longer but still a loss because one side was a premade which was unfair to the PUGs. There was the occasional win but they were few and far between.
Av is a dumpster fire, but no one is saying 100% horde wins isn’t broken either. I’m all for some minor fixes to AV. The change did not benefit me in anyway. I rarely Q for AV anymore after I got exalted on 2 characters.
Agreed. However the toxic nature of that exact system is causing a modern problem in the modern version of this game. A lot of people have noticed this for months and finally are getting fed up with it.
Sure, but were talking about a change a good chunk of the playerbase seems to be for. Not just a few people. Just like breaking the AV meta and stopping people from Q dodging WSG. Both were supported by large parts of the community.