Except premade vs premade is the equivalent of pug vs pug. And premades are just as prone to give up quickly if they think they’ll lose as pugs will, just as some pug vs pug games can last a long time. So no they don’t automatically gain anything from switching to pugging.
If anything premades lose faster when they want to because you don’t end up with half your team who decides to keep fighting.
Pug players aren’t bad players. People have this misconception; the problem is that a single player can’t overcome the circumstances created by a perfect comp.
A premade team has Fort, AI, gotw, blessings, etc. Every possible out of combat buff in most cases – some pugs result in like 8 warriors and a warlock, and you don’t even have a 10th player when the game starts. 4 people just sat in the flag room because they gave up hope when the gate opened which leaves 5 players to go meet a group of 10 fully buffed players.
They all die, the team runs in and crushes the 4 people sitting in the FR and proceeds to the GY where the 5 who initially died just rezzed (without buffs still).
You’re going to be a ghost for the rest of the game.
The pug, in this case, is trying to compete with the premade, they’re simply unable to because the comp they were provided was ill equipped to handle one which was hand selected to offer every possible class-specific benefit available.
If a pug has no healers and a premade has 3 healers, it’s unlikely the pug is even going to get a kill on a single player unless you’re able to catch or force a player out of position, because they just mob around wherever their heals are at.
i was gladiator on retail…mainly like to pug bg’s…hated rbg’s
i knew alot of great players who hated rbg’s but liked doing bg’s solo q
to be completely honest it usually seemed like the worse individual skill players gravitated towards premades
This is exactly what i’m saying.
We’re playing on the exact same competitive level as you, we just don’t have a perfect class comp which is why you always win.
To suggest that you’re a better player because you queued with the right classes and we left it up to the luck of the draw isn’t a fair assessment of the reason why you won.
Circumstances favored you because of your team composition.
Random team versus random team? As far as I’m concerned that’s fair. One team is going to have a better comp than the other, but the one with the worse comp might have better players who are able to circumvent that challenge. That’s decided during the match.
If you hand selected your comp, you didn’t play by the same set of rules that we did – thus, you shouldn’t be playing our team. You’re playing the game using a different ruleset which allowed for that.
It does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that you’re playing the game on a higher competitive level.
We played random teams, and we liked it that way because it made the match more interesting. You didn’t, though, and that made the match seem unfair.
We /roll 1-100, you /roll 100-100.
I’m not saying people who pug are bad. But when you solo queue you’re rolling the dice. You might have a good team with a good comp, you might not. If you want to win consistently you need to build or join groups. And tbh in a game that’s all about social interaction and group gameplay I don’t think that’s a bad thing.
I can tell you from personal experience, since I’m not a ranker, that my guild “premades” still get 5 capped by the tryhard rankers same as you, we even lose to other pugs. We don’t take classic pvp seriously, but we play together for fun. I don’t keep stats but I’d guess I’m around .500 in WSG/AB.
You don’t have to be in a tryhard premade to have fun. Even just being in a group of 4-5 friends makes a big difference against all but the super sweaty premades, especially if 1 or 2 are healers. At this point if you exclusively solo queue you’re just intentionally gimping yourself.
Anyone who thinks classic rank is indicative of skill is just an idiot lol
Exactly, it’s not retail, never will be. I’m not a hardcore #nochanges person either, but this game is a social game at its core without the retail solo BS. Go out and make friends for a pre-made, or join a PvP guild, simple solutions…
Right so then what’s the issue with premade vs premade. You get your consistent teams and you get to play against other equivalent teams. Just like pug vs pug would involve both teams rolling the dice on team mates.
You also seem confused by something. When you join solo you still end up on a team playing in a group.
I dont feel like typing out the same answer to the same question over and over again. Learn to read
Then learn to respond to counter arguments when they invalidate what you said.
It’s not hard to understand. Premade vs premade is the equivalent of pug vs pug, so premades would get no inherent advantage from switching to pugging.
And the point you also seem to not understand, joining solo still results in you being on a team of players you have to work together with.
Right – so why is the game pitting people playing fair against people who have loaded dice?
Only because the game doesn’t distinguish between players who are rolling /1-100 and those that are rolling /100-100.
See, this humanizes you from where I’m standing, becuase between Tuesday morning and Thursday evening, 98%+ of the WSG and AB games I enter have a sweaty premade on the other end with a flawless comp that’s ready to simply steamroll my randomly generated team.
It would feel bad not to be able to play with your friends if facing a solid pug would hypothetically be a challenge to you and your team; but you have to understand the fact that other players are abusing the privilege of being able to queue as a full team.
If:
Then:
You’d still be able to play with your as many of your friends as you want to, with the understanding that there’s going to be a similarly sized team on the other end.
Not a big deal. WoW is a social game, I hear. So play with your friends.
shrug
And you need to learn to read the counter argument I’ve given to point 5 times or so in this thread. Does you scroll wheel not work or something?
I get your point, but working with random pugs you’ll likely never see again is not the same thing as working with a group of people you play with regularly. If you can’t see that idk what to tell you. Same way a cata heroics were a blast for people who did them with guildies and such, but god awful for random LFD groups. Make some friends and wow becomes a much better game.
This is exactly why many people prefer pugging.
If you have a bad game, there’s no baggage.
Every game is unique and different because you have to overcome a different set of challenges due to the nature of the players the game found for you, their classes’ capabilities, and their behavioral tendencies as a player.
It’s. More. Interesting.
The biggest issue with your plan is how it would affect queues. It wouldn’t be a huge deal for alliance, but it would really suck for horde.
I would prefer to wait an hour for a fair match any day of the week Sunday-Saturday.
How does a 5 minute queue for a 0 honor pugstomp benefit me in any way?
It isn’t fun, it doesn’t help me advance my character… Why do I care about queue time.
lol u nerds would quit q’ing if you can’t premade? figured that…gogo R14 retail rivals
Why do you think that everyone premading would suddenly stop? There’s no reason to think that as it would give the same advantage it always has, namely that you get to control who’s on your team.
Right but when a system has a LFG type system that allows solo queuing it should support it properly. In the case of BG’s that means including matching criteria for group size, just like it already has filters for level range and to maintain team size.
Once again, premade vs premade and pug vs pug would do nothing to prevent people who like premading from doing so.
It doesn’t. But that’s why horde do AV. Doesn’t matter if it’s a 2 hour queue it’s a free win lol
Tbh the biggest change that would make pvp significantly better is just banning consumables. Most of the tryhard groups spend 20-30g per game, if not more, spamming sapper charges LIP’s and FAP’s
people always say “force premade vs premade” but never say how
It’s only and advantage when you’re playing other teams who don’t do that. The people who are essentially dedicating their lives to getting rank 14 aren’t just gunna accept that they no long have an advantage and give up their push. They’ll just find another way to gain an advantage over others and continue the honor grind, because that’s what the honor system rewards, not fair skill based gameplay.