End Premades

It is, but it feels yucky like stomping a pug, and I’d rather have nothing to do with it.

Here is the human logic, Joyson.

All you have to do is transpose that into a language that the servers understand and you’ve effectively eliminated the problem while allowing players to queue with whatever group size they want, while also ensuring a fair game.

What the system seeks to ensure is fairness in matchmaking. Beyond that it’s up to the players. While I dislike the use of consumables in PvP, 1-3 players using them in a single battleground is unlikely to completely break the game, even if it gives 1 team an advantage.

If consumable use were widespread after implementation, I’m certain the groups not using consumables – seeing that they were outmatched, would probably drop out of the full premade queue. Eventually those queues will simply become too long because nobody wants to play against the teams who are playing dirty.

And ultimately only dirty teams will play with full comps until they get sweaty enough to queue for matches they can’t entirely control with consumables; leaving that playing-field cleaner for people who want to use it.

you understand this is no different than what we have now? you understand how premades get into battlegrounds? they all que at the same time and join the discord lobby corresponding to the battleground number they are in.

There wouldn’t be any way to circumvent the sum of both of these constraints.

They won’t give up their grind. And why would they leave the security of their premades? They wouldn’t suddenly get a better win rate or shorter games by switching to pugging. All they woud get is random team mates and for good premades that would likely mean a worse win rate and worse hph.

What’s more likely is that without pug stomping being an option you’d just see more win trading going on, but who cares as you said these people are toxic anyways and that already happens.

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premades would just exist cross server

Then perhaps 20-30 seconds isn’t enough.

this in no way inhibits the formation of premades because it doesnt matter which battleground they join. premades dont select which battleground they join and all hope to join that one. they work of a system of luckily getting qued into the same battleground number with a threshold for how many are needed for success.

only got 13 for av? ok go back to the waiting to que lobby.

Cross server premades don’t concern me nearly as much as full fledged ones do; but the frequency with which people attempt to create these is likely to increase substantially after a system such as this were implemented, which is why it crossed my mind.

Scrambling the queue order was the best idea I could come up with to prevent it, but I’m open to ideas.

I was under the impression that they accomplish cross realm premades by queueing for a battleground simultaneously. Scrambling the queue order means that they’re less likely to all end up in the same match, because more people are queueing while the order is scrambled – resulting in a higher likelihood of their being spread out whenever an instance is actually generated.

I see what you’re saying though. Queue with more people, separate into various voice channels after you’ve received your instance.

yeah dude this is what im saying. youre talking about restricting premades into a certain que system, its like trying to catch all the ants in the world. good luck.

It’s a conundrum to be sure.

Setting a minimum queue period which was too long would feel like an unfair and unnecessary inconvenience – too short and you’re not guaranteed to get enough players in the queue to properly separate out the players attempting to form a premade group.

But ultimately a cross server premade is still just a glorified pug. You can do a lot less to control a composition from that standpoint.

I guess I imagined it like a pool of players, each attributed with a number which represented their place in queue. The game isn’t going to generate an instance immidiately even though it has 10 players – it might wait until it has a randomly generated number of players in queue which is odd like… 27 or uh… 32, and then randomize the order and initiate instance invitations for a range of numbers which corresponds to the # of players required to fill the maximum # of instances that can possibly be filled with the # of players the initiation variable could potentially fill; leaving what remainder might exist in the player pool and mark any player who was in the initial pool with a modifier which guarantees his/her order variables will fall within the randomly generated selection range the algorithm intends to use for the next phase of invitations.

(as to eliminate the chance they miss multiple invitation phases in a row)

So if the new instance initiation variable is… uh… 19, the players who missed the first set of invitations’ queue order variable will fall within the range of whatever numbers between 1 and 19 that the queue intends to use to generate invitations for the 1 instance it can create with 19 players at the point in time during which 19 players are finally waiting in queue.

19 seems somewhat low in my opinion, given that players could hypothetically be queuing with many more than that – 19 was simply an example.

You’d have to set the invitation initiation variable to be within certain parameters based on the number of average players who queue, over what would seem like a reasonable period of time, to fill the pool – like an average, + or - a range which seemed reasonable enough for randomization.

If people did ultimately successfully fill premades using a dynamic system such as this, the average range of the pool would adjust itself to make it significantly more difficult over the course of multiple attempts, and then reduce as that pressure subsided (after people became aware that their attempts to premade had been largely unsuccessful); such as to require less players joining the queue pool prior to initiating instance invitations.

So long as the system wasn’t widely abused for that purpose, it would have very little effect on queue times at all.

Maybe it’s just filling 1 instance at a time, but holding a pool of players back for a period of 1-3 minutes or so, and maintaining a certain number of players as seems reasonable by an average measurement of time.

So it’s got 60 people waiting for an instance, it’s going to randomly generate 10 numbers between 1 and 60 and raise those who were not chosen to priority 2 and re-order them. It waits until it’s got a certain # of additional players to add to the queue in order to maintain a large enough queue (which it determines according to the average rate of players queuing per minute)

You could add an extra probability variable for higher priority players every time a wave went out so you’re assigning players with “priority 2” 2 numbers. and priority 3, 3 numbers. players with prio 4 have 4 numbers. eventually those guys are gonna get picked.

there’s 54 people in queue boom, choosing 10 numbers between 1-54, modified by the probability of player priority, checks conditionals.

Did more than 3 players from a single server get chosen? yes? this player had higher priority, throw this one back, generate a different random number… etc.

Raise those unchosen to priority +1, add a number to the range in their honor, upon reordering them, etc.

idk… Sounds complicated. The first way sounds more realistic but also more easily exploitable. It ultimately depends on the rate players are queuing up for battlegrounds over time, and how we define a reasonable queue period, given that there’s technically enough players to make an instance right then and there.

It’s entirely possible that instances will be able to be created at the same rate, only the system has to be pre-loaded with a player pool. So people will only really experience delays just subsequent to a server reset or something of that nature – when the queue is legitimately empty of players.

The only people that support premades are those abusing the system and benefiting from it.

The fact that I have played 12 WSG/ABS between 9am-noon EST yesterday and today and have faced a premade every single match shows there is a player made problem due to abusing a system.

This isn’t no changes - this is a necessary change. The same way there should be changes on Lotus spawns - it’s players abusing the system.

People don’t even leave the starting caves/FR anymore and AFK after one death. It’s going to destroy PvP entirely if it already hasn’t.

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10 in a row here today, all losses, one pug after…also a loss.

11 premades, 11 losses. 8k honor total.

Going to lose a rank because of this now.

Crossrealm bgs were added August 22 2006. The honor system was revamped December 5th 2006. It was live for a little over three months, not even long enough to hit Highwarlord if you hadn’t been ranking prior to their release. This does not recreate the vanilla PVP experience.

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Classic is the 1.12 experience, not 1.5. We knew what we were getting from day 1

The point of classic was to recreate the vanilla experience. Making changes to classic if the result is a more a vanilla like experience is warranted. Especially when the entirety of the PVP system is inconsistent with what players experienced. You are against making changes because your friends are still trying to rank and you wouldn’t want them to lose the ability to stomp pugs as a premade.

I’m actually not against changes. If you bothered to read my previous posts you’d know I don’t like the honor system at all and I wish it was replaced. I just don’t think seperating out solo queuers into their own special queue fixes pvp

Blizzard told us like 6 months before launch everything was gunna be in it’s 1.12 state. The difference between me and you is I understood what that meant, you just complain about it. You got wow with CRBG’s and a garbage honor system, deal with it or leave.

Not everyone enjoys getting stomped by a premade, when they solo queue. Pvp is a large part of the attraction in any mmo, and given the numbers of players here, if they don’t fix the queue system to end premades and return some actual balance to this portion of the game, they may end up losing customers.

Its one thing having to join groups for dungeons and raids, its another having to join groups for pvp before even entering. I’m not saying, put in a gearscore rating like there is on retail, or a system based off the pvp rank of the players. I’m saying, get rid of group queue entirely.

Call it what ya will trolls, to you, its probably whining. To me, its just stating a obvious fact. You premade people don’t have the spine to pug because your precious ego’s seemingly can’t handle defeat at the hands of a un-coordinated pug group. (Min-Max’rs).

I’m only asking that they level the playing field, so everyone pugs and takes their chances in a fair system. Premades, are not fair at all.

People would quit if they removed premades entirely too. Not everyone enjoys playing BGs with random cross-server strangers. Some people premade because they enjoy PVPing with friends or guildies. What is wrong with PVPing with friends?

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Just have premades only fight premades…it’s pretty simple.

right so yall want to end premades ok.

HOW?