Also in RL philosophy, especially with omnibenevolence added in.
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I think the most gross stuff isn’t in the cinematic itself, but the post dialogue where Tyrande’s rage is subdued. Telling a woman who’s people were victims of genocide that her anger is making her not herself and is therefore not valid is extremely toxic. Victims can be angry, Blizzard. Especially at friggin’ genocide. The simplistic moral duality the are pushing of ‘vengeance bad, renewal good’ doesn’t hold water. Why not justice? Victims have a right to their anger, especially women, and abusers only deserve justice, and in terms of mass murder, justice should be harsh.
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So is she a being of life or a being of nature? Nature is savage, but nature involves both life and death. Life is…life. Why is a being of LIFE so deadly?
See how this new cosmology overcomplicates everything? All of this 5d chess nonsense is just players trying to make sense of numerous retcons and haphazardly piece things back together.
Just face it: they’re forcing their own weird vision for the lore with no regard for what came before it.
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It’s also extremely absurd.
a. Sylvanas kills thousands of night elves.
b. Tyrande angry and asks Elune for vengeance.
c. Tyrande faces off against Sylvanas and Elune denies her vengeance.
d. Elune tells Tyrande she condemned said night elves and was using them as soul fuel for her sibling. Elune gives her a “choice” between justice (let’s say it loud) and “renewal”- whatever that means, because clearly Tyrande has no clue.
??
e. Tyrande calm again and no longer wants justice.
How the hell did we go from step d to step e? Why isn’t Tyrande super pissed at Elune? It’s ridiculous.
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Does anyone know how Bwonsamdei managed to secure his own souls rather than losing them to the Maw? Is it because he deals with the collection of souls directly? But wouldn’t The Arbiter and Bastion has issues with that?
Also, if he is able to do that, then why can’t Elune? Who we know with some confidence that she can deny the Kyrian their charge and prevent Kaldorei souls from crossing over, having them linger as Wisps.
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His worshippers and those he made deals with seem to have their souls bound to him, essentially snatching them up before a kyrian arrive to wisp them away. Also it’s not easy for him to pull them away from the pull of the Maw, he nearly died in Shadows Rising for refusing to let go of any troll souls and the weight was straight up killing him.
I’d say because she does not have her own domain in the shadowlands, where naturally mortal creatures go. But she can make them stay as you said, or earmark them for her sister but they still have to go through the system probably, like I’d imagine Ysera did. Still earmarking the souls serves no point if everything just get’s dumped into the Maw anyway.
Elune said in the cinematic that she sent the cascade of soul to the winter queen, my take is that she decided to not make any of the night elves in the tree into wisps so they could aid Ardenweald instead.
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Treng: 4
Doubters: 0
I love this cinematic and lore direction for the most part. I want more of Elune now.
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So she chose to kill the Night Elves lmao the mental gymnastics you’re doing in this thread is hilarious to read.
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lmao the cope
Elune didn’t choose to kill them, that’s wholly on Sylvanas and the Horde. Elune just decided to use it to help the Shadowlands.
Didn’t end up that way of course, and it kinda makes Elune look like an idiot, but still.
Probably should have just turned them all into angry wisps tbh.
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Like I said, mental gymnastics hun.
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Elune lets the tree burn, chooses not to save the Night Elves (as you put it lmao), ultimately letting them all burn to death so she could nourish the Winter Queen’s forest with delicious Night Elven anima.
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This implies Elune could have saved the Night Elves and Teldrassil but she CHOSE not to. Note that she pacified Saurfang when he was about to kill Malfurion but she chose not to interfere with Sylvanas. Elune killed the Night Elves.
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Tyrande seeks vengeance against Sylvanas and summons the wrath of Elune. Elune says “k” and grants her the Night Warrior power.
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Tyrande is about to strangle the life(?) out of Sylvanas’ cold death body but Elune takes away her Night Warrior power because she didn’t want Tyrande to kill Sylvanas??
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Elune tells the Winter Queen that Tyrande has to choose between Vengeance and Renewal cause apparently Tyrande didn’t invoke the Night Warrior out of vengeance or anything LMAO
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You don’t know what the definition of ‘kill’ is.
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You’re still hung up on “kill”? Elune killed the Night Elves. Sylvanas helped.
Elune participated in the genocide. She could have pacified Sylvanas just as she did to Saurfang, but she chose not to. Why did she allow Sylvanas to burn the tree down? Because Elune wanted the Night Elves to die. She let the Night Elves burn to death instead of saving them. They were merely fuel for Ardenweald in Elune’s eyes and that much is obvious from the recent cinematic.
You can’t even admit how trash the story has become. Try to look at it impartially because it’s obvious Elune is the scapegoat here for Sylvanas’ redemption arc.
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https://tenor.com/view/el-risitas-happy-laughing-gif-16530528
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Treng is a strange orcy.
I have never seen someone so desperate to be loved by Elune, but utterly refuse to be Night Elf.
Just play Night Elf, bro. If we are so favored by Blizzard and Elune. Join the winning side?
Maybe then you will understand how utterly doomed it is over here.
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I’d like for someone to find a major catastrophe where Elune directly intervened and saved the Kaldorei. For real. she never has. She didnt in the Sundering. She didnt in the War of the Shifting Sands. She didnt in any of invasions of the legion, or the Cataclysm. Its just not a thing she does.
My read of what was said is not “I could of intervened but I didn’t” it was “instead of turning all these people into wisps I tried to send them to you”
TBH the real issue this sort of room for interpretation even exists at all. These are story beats that there should be no discrepancy over. At all.
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Soooo… Elune got the Greek god treatment. Got it. So the answer about why she couldn´t manage what good ól Bwon could has been at least teased upon.
Apalling story beat as far as respect to the Nelf fans´ expectations for their “true goddess”, but not terribly surprising considering the lore post Legion has been kinda kicking us in the face 24/7 with the “your Gods aren´t the benevolent entities that you believe they are, and you better start paying attention, cause it´s quite obvious they just help you sometimes thanks to ulterior motivations that actually benefit their goals” (and this people goes All the way down to every cosmic entity up to the Light indeed. Heck, the Light basically did this very same thing to the Helves/Beves as far back as the Arthas invasion, and guess who went back to worship it like a goodie two shoes little soldier, hmm?
Frankly, the way I see it the actual tragedy in regards to the narrative quality is NOT about Elune gettin´ Zeus-ed, is about Tyrande and Shandris NOT realizing they are NOTHING BUT the fancy tools of a careless overpowered b!tch nor much less understanding this and feeling the actual outrage they deserve to feel; I mean their response is borderline lobotomy as far as Elune is concerned (though, right now they are kinda in the realm of the aforementioned b!tch´s dearest sister who coincidentally had just made up with her sis, ergo, maybe not the best time to conduct a religious revolution against the b!tch herself).
Everything in this expac is kinda taking us towards the same answer: why are the mortals obssesed with depending on this a-hole entities (and by a-hole entities I mean ALL the “Gods” regardless of their cosmic affiliation)?
Wait a minute: is Blizzard trying to make our PC´s (the “heroes / heroines” of the story some of us disdain oh so much to be called) actually go through the actual literary " Campbell´s Hero´s Journey"? Cause this nonsense expac IS trying to tie everything as an actual “crossing of the horizon / revelation” tbqh.
Ahhh, so confusing!!! /repeatedly hits head on desk
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Gods have always been fickle and dubious at best. Medivh said it best in WC3:
“As for me, I came back to ensure that there would be a future, to teach the world that it no longer needed Guardians. The hope for future generations has always resided in mortal hands.”
A shame the elves continue to devote themselves to this useless “”“Goddess”"".
At this point the devs are pretty much railroading us to be the protagonists of a knockoff of His Dark Materials. And I hate that almost as much as Ethriel here hates the Night Elves being dragged through the mud (I’ve made quite a few threads criticizing the villain batting of the Light and Blizzard’s fixation on retcons and edgelord contrarian iconoclasm)
Personally, between that, the shoddy lore and their abuses of staff, I’m seriously considering washing my hands with Warcraft (only things keeping me on are the possibility things will get better and the friends I’ve playing).
OK.
How do we deal with the gods of the Horde? Kill the elementals with their masters (and thereby kill shamanism); An’She turns out to be a smug naaru (evil Father of Light?); Loa get mad and hostile during Lifelands?
Oh yes. And there will be “communism” everywhere, disheartening the goblins.
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